Instructors who yell for no reason

[wetb4igetinthewater]

No ... 40 feet will put in smack into the current. OW classes taught at Keystone don't go that deep unless conditions are close to slack. As I indicated earlier, there's a rope attached to the bottom at 20 feet. Classes are usually conducted within easy reach of that rope ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Got it. I don't like to teach with that limitation, but I digress. My statement about not my first choice stands then.

 

[Ankush Mittal]

I saw a video once of an instructor trying to get his Open Water Students to take a knee on the bottom for skill tests. Some were having issues with buoyancy which is understandable for Open Water students and rather than having patience with them and getting them to settle down, he was having a fit underwater waving everywhere, pointing at them angrily making come closer and kneel signs in a frustrated manner. It was a classic video for an example of how to be a bad instructor.

 

[Schwob]

Delete

Why was the original post deleted? I thought it provoked some excellent discussion with some interesting viewpoints?

Just wanting to second that the OP's now deleted, but in the quotation in post 22 preserved post lead to a quite interesting discussion. Do not understand the deletion either,

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I saw a video once of an instructor trying to get his Open Water Students to take a knee on the bottom for skill tests. Some were having issues with buoyancy which is understandable for Open Water students and rather than having patience with them and getting them to settle down, he was having a fit underwater waving everywhere, pointing at them angrily making come closer and kneel signs in a frustrated manner. It was a classic video for an example of how to be a bad instructor.

It was more likely an example of a dive instructor who learned how to teach by rote, without a clue what to do if things didn't go exactly as he had experienced during his instructor training.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Ankush Mittal]

It was more likely an example of a dive instructor who learned how to teach by rote, without a clue what to do if things didn't go exactly as he had experienced during his instructor training.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Very much likely. But as someone who is going into the DM course sometime next year these videos help me understand exactly the kind of DM or Instructor I don't want to be. We have all had our discussions/arguments over PADI vs other Scuba Agency qualities and there are bad divers and instructors in both. Though I will be sticking to PADI for now, I want to be one of the DM/Instructors who show that quality of training is defined by the diver/instructor and not necessarily only the agency.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Very much likely. But as someone who is going into the DM course sometime next year these videos help me understand exactly the kind of DM or Instructor I don't want to be. We have all had our discussions/arguments over PADI vs other Scuba Agency qualities and there are bad divers and instructors in both. Though I will be sticking to PADI for now, I want to be one of the DM/Instructors who show that quality of training is defined by the diver/instructor and not necessarily only the agency.

That's not really an agency issue ... it's more an issue of someone wanting to become an instructor for the wrong reasons, and shortcutting the path to becoming a good one. There are plenty of outstanding instructors who came up within the ranks of PADI ... the agency in no way prohibits people from doing so. But like most other agencies, it also doesn't prohibit those who have neither the aptitude nor experience from doing so either.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Neilwood]

Very much likely. But as someone who is going into the DM course sometime next year these videos help me understand exactly the kind of DM or Instructor I don't want to be. We have all had our discussions/arguments over PADI vs other Scuba Agency qualities and there are bad divers and instructors in both. Though I will be sticking to PADI for now, I want to be one of the DM/Instructors who show that quality of training is defined by the diver/instructor and not necessarily only the agency.

I would guess that a lot comes down to the IDC that you choose as well as the type of instructor you want to be. If the IDC pushes you in the direction of all skills being taught kneeling, guess what you are likely to end up doing. If they teach all skills neutral, you will end up with a lot of better instructors.

 

[Ankush Mittal]

I would guess that a lot comes down to the IDC that you choose as well as the type of instructor you want to be. If the IDC pushes you in the direction of all skills being taught kneeling, guess what you are likely to end up doing. If they teach all skills neutral, you will end up with a lot of better instructors.

Ya, I don't plan to do the IDC with someone I haven't dived with or taken the course with. Will keep your particular advice in mind. Thanks

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I saw a video once of an instructor trying to get his Open Water Students to take a knee on the bottom for skill tests. Some were having issues with buoyancy which is understandable for Open Water students and rather than having patience with them and getting them to settle down, he was having a fit underwater waving everywhere, pointing at them angrily making come closer and kneel signs in a frustrated manner. It was a classic video for an example of how to be a bad instructor.

Did the video include the Benny Hill theme or did it play in your head?

 

[boulderjohn]

I would guess that a lot comes down to the IDC that you choose as well as the type of instructor you want to be. If the IDC pushes you in the direction of all skills being taught kneeling, guess what you are likely to end up doing. If they teach all skills neutral, you will end up with a lot of better instructors.

I talked with a PADI instructor examiner about this. He said that the really big IDC centers guarantee that their people will pass the IE by having them do a very carefully choreographed routine for each skill they have to demonstrate. He said that the choreographed routine includes any step they think any examiner will want to see in the skill, meaning that the demonstrations are unnecessarily long and complicated. They practice them over and over and over and over until they do it perfectly. He said that if you put all the instructor candidates from one of those centers in the pool together and gave then the signal to perform a skill, it would look like a synchronized swimming routine. These skills are almost invariably done overweighted and kneeling, because there will be no tendency to float at all, which would disrupt the perfection of the routine. He said he personally hates to see it done that way, but under current standards, there are no rules against it, and the students get top scores.

The Director of Instruction for a local dive shop came from one of those programs, and he made following those procedures (he had videos) mandatory for DM training, even though the DM graduates would be assisting instructors who will invariably teach the skills differently. Ironically, he had learned about neutral buoyancy instruction after getting that training, agreed that it produced far better graduates, and did it himself while he was instructing. That means that he was teaching DMs to do a skill in a way he himself believed to be inferior, and the graduates he had just taught to teach that way might then assist him in a class and see him doing it completely differently. He had no problems with that. He said that once people learn to teach the skills the way he had been taught, they were free to do it another way in the real world.

That did not make any sense to me personally, but who am I to argue?

BTW, PADI is currently redesigning the IE, and I was assured that buoyancy instruction would be emphasized.