Best Cave Diving Cert? Also... Sidemount vs Backmount Doubles?

[divad]

I don’t see how that changes anything I said.

I agree. I don't see how that changes anything you said either.

 

[tbone1004]

most of the cave diving criticism and instructor choosing threads center around people who don't have their proverbial sh!t together. I.e. cavern/intro is actually more teaching people how to dive, than how to cave dive. If you go to Edd for cavern/intro he is going to expect that you already know how to dive, and how to cavern dive. If not, you will find that that course kicks your butt harder than anything else you've ever done in your diving career. If however you do something like take fundies and pass *which fundies is basically like a weedout course in college btw, MANY people do not pass*, then it proves you have at least a solid understanding of buoyancy/trim/propulsion techniques, and decent situational awareness. If you have that sorted, then cavern/intro is pretty simple.

Focus on taking fundies, then after fundies, if you want to try doubles and/or sidemount, come up to Lake Jocassee and we will dive. After you have that sorted, then you can make a better instructor selection based on the configuration you are going to dive. If you have your fundamentals sorted, they're just teaching you cave specific skills and any of the good cave instructors can do that, it's all about where you see yourself cave diving, and how you see yourself doing those dives.

 

[Neilwood]

Personally I would agree with @tbone1004 - doing things that way will progress your training at a manageable pace.

Fundies will sort out the basics of your diving, practise with a good diver (such as Tbone) will help you get more comfortable with it as well as allowing a discussion about what you want to achieve further along the line.

Then when you are ready, get started on intro/cave.

 

[seeker242]

I chose to do GUE fundamentals first. It will be valuable regardless of what you choose to do next. Good trim, buoyancy and propulsion are fundamental to everyone.

 

[helodriver87]

I'll echo what a lot of people have said already and recommend GUE Fundamentals. If I'm remembering right from the earlier thread, you're pretty new at this (<25 dives, most of those training). It's fine to be thinking about cave at this point (I knew I wanted to go that route from the moment I got certified), but it's way too early to be planning for it. GUE has a minimum dive requirement of 100 post certification dives for Cave 1. You need to be comfortable in doubles, with a primary light, and a drysuit (not technically mandatory, but highly recommended). Trim and buoyancy need to be spot on. I took Fundies relatively early (this is good, as it'll form good habits and you have fewer bad ones to break), got comfortable with a cave setup, and then hammered out practice dive after practice dive to really nail the skills and control necessary for a cave class. All told, it took about a year. Some people do it quicker, some take much longer. The important thing is that I went into Cave 1 feeling really comfortable and prepared. It was still a kick in the ass, but I was able to enjoy myself and process the feedback I got. If all you're learning is cave diving specific skills, it's a fun course. If you're trying to sort out your diving skills and equipment at the same time, it's going to suck. And you probably won't pass.

Bottom line: Take fundies early. Tech passes are pretty uncommon on the first try, especially for newer divers, but it'll show you what you need to focus on. Do loads of practice dives (this doesn't mean purely skill focused dives, though you should be doing plenty of those, but make sure you're working on improving some aspect of your diving on every dive). When you feel ready, go back for the tech upgrade, get to 100 dives, then start looking into cave instructors. You really don't want to rush into this.

 

[CavernFrog]

Here is what I am thinking...

I will take GUE Fundies at the Rec level (single tank back mount in a wetsuit). Then I will take Intro to Cave. This will allow me to explore just slightly beyond the cavern zone and poke my nose in some caves. Then I will dive my ass off within the limits of my training, knowing that there is this whole other level of rigor that awaits. During that time, I will consider upgrading to the GUE Tech cert etc...

 

[bamafan]

Intro level really sucks. You will be unhappy really quickly.

 

[taimen]

Here is what I am thinking...

I will take GUE Fundies at the Rec level (single tank back mount in a wetsuit). Then I will take Intro to Cave. This will allow me to explore just slightly beyond the cavern zone and poke my nose in some caves. Then I will dive my ass off within the limits of my training, knowing that there is this whole other level of rigor that awaits. During that time, I will consider upgrading to the GUE Tech cert etc...

I live far far away from diveable caves so it is easy for me to resist temptation to poke my nose in some caves with minimal training. But having recently completed the GUE Fundamentals, I recommend getting into doubles and drysuit ASAP and taking Fundies with them. With your diving resume, you will probably earn a rec pass (or provisional) even if you take the course in tech config. But for your ultimate goals in mind you will get much more out of the training this way.
You are clearly trying to find the shortest path to serious caves, so start with getting a drysuit that fits you perfectly with the undergarments you plan to use. Learn your trim and buoyancy in that drysuit. Less stuff to relearn after switching to dry and doubles if you do it early on.

 

[PfcAJ]

Here is what I am thinking...

I will take GUE Fundies at the Rec level (single tank back mount in a wetsuit). Then I will take Intro to Cave. This will allow me to explore just slightly beyond the cavern zone and poke my nose in some caves. Then I will dive my ass off within the limits of my training, knowing that there is this whole other level of rigor that awaits. During that time, I will consider upgrading to the GUE Tech cert etc...

Cave diving on a single tank isn’t a good maneuver.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I live far far away from diveable caves so it is easy for me to resist temptation to poke my nose in some caves with minimal training. But having recently completed the GUE Fundamentals, I recommend getting into doubles and drysuit ASAP and taking Fundies with them. With your diving resume, you will probably earn a rec pass (or provisional) even if you take the course in tech config. But for your ultimate goals in mind you will get much more out of the training this way.
You are clearly trying to find the shortest path to serious caves, so start with getting a drysuit that fits you perfectly with the undergarments you plan to use. Learn your trim and buoyancy in that drysuit. Less stuff to relearn after switching to dry and doubles if you do it early on.

The OP says he is determined to go sidemount, and there's nothing wrong with that. Assuming he doesn't change his mind, then taking Fundies in backmount doubles is not the way to go. Also, Fundies is hard enough in a wetsuit and single tank. Making it even more difficult by taking it in a drysuit and doubles only makes sense if one wants to continue with that configuration. Even then, it has been said that taking Fundies in a drysuit and doubles before one is REALLY comfortable in that configuration can get in the way of allowing one to absorb all they otherwise could from the course. I think Fundies is best taken (the first go-around at least) in the configuration the diver is already comfortable with, and delaying taking Fundies in order to first learn drysuit seems like wasted time to me. Most of the skills learned in the single-tank "recreational" configuration carry over to all future diving. So I think it is best to learn those skills without delay. My recommendation would be to take Fundies in the wetsuit and single-tank configuration he is already familiar with, then get a drysuit. At that point, he could take GUE's Drysuit Primer, learn on his own or from a mentor, or learn from a non-GUE instructor such as the guy he has in mind for sidemount instruction. I agree that his post above doesn't take into account the intermediate step of learning drysuit and double tanks (whether backmount or sidemount). My thinking is that only once one is diving comfortably in drysuit and double tanks is one really prepared to begin cave training. At least that's how I myself have been trying to approach it.