No Joke

[Bierstadt]

I have enjoyed reading this thread. My own safety check for boats is as follows:

1) Test Nitrox mix and pressure at dive shop;
2) Rig attached gear and regs at dock;
3) Upon approach or arrival at dive site put on suit and far too many things around my forearms;
4) Final check on all connections, open valves fully, test regs with breathing, watch spg, note pressure for the log, fully inflate wing;
5) Clip on pony, open valve, breathe it, close valve;
6) Fins on, gloves on, mask on, splash.

I think it is pointless to worry about if anyone has fiddled with your valves. It is a major no-no, but it is no risk to me - because I assume anything could have happened and will never splash without following my checklist. With the way a lot of people seem to remember things I can't believe that anyone over the age of 40 would be comfortable with a valve check they did more than a minute before the tank goes on one's back. Anything else is just asking to jump in and find oneself having to discreetly asking one's buddy, "Hey, could you open my valve?"

You know, like I do.

 

[TrimixToo]

The original Hogarthian set up called for the LP wing inflator to be routed from the left post when diving doubles. Loss of BC inflator would alert a diver that the left post rolled off while he was breathing through the right side long hose. In doubles, an SPG that shows more gas than it should based upon depth and time alerts you to the same. Most doubles divers are routing the BC LP inflator from the right post. The advantage of this is that a runaway LP inflator hose can be shut down with the right hand while the left hand dumps gas from the OPV. Once depressurized, the LP hose should pop off the BCD easily. Sometimes you can get a pressurized LP hose off the BCD inflator easily. Other times, you can't. The ability to shut off the right post and pop the LP hose is a plus. Other than a flow check (simplest way to determine hand wheel status) the SPG can give you a clue if you've been lazy.

I was going to read to the end before posting, but I'll do it here, even though some points might be made later.

I made acetal (Delrin) flanges for all my LP inflator hoses that did not already have them (such as dry suit hoses). They are not large, but they make it easy to thumb off an inflator hose one-handed, pressurized or not. I can pop them off very quickly and deal with the slight change in buoyancy, if necessary, at my leisure. A friend and I once devoted a dive to LP disconnect drills. Why the industry does not provide larger flanges for those of us who wear gloves on "every" dive is a bit of a mystery.

The checks you do before jumping in were the key to this being a nonevent no matter what followed. *Everyone* should do what you do, recreational or tech, and I do it as well. Once in a while I find something off and fix it; that's the reason for the check! A DM I know once splashed without checking, wearing a single with a jacket-style BC, found the air was off on the way down, turned on the valve, and continued the dive, but it could easily have gone very wrong.

I, too, have had a "helpful" crew member check my valves on my way to the gate on a boat. He watched me do my checks and did it anyway! I sat down, rechecked the valves, redid the checks, and asked him please not to do that again. He didn't.

I was trained at the time the 1/4 turn back was the standard. Old habits are hard to break, and once in a while I still do that. It's harmless, just not necessary, in my view. [Edit] Except perhaps in tight overheads where a valve might roll off, and an extra 1/4 turn open might be nice to have! I suppose this means I should try harder to open the fully, though I have only every had one rolloff and it took no time to figure out or fix. [End edit}

I'm glad you did your original post, glad it worked out OK, and hope the miscreant has seen the error of his ways and goes on to gather more experience without further incidents like the one that sparked your post.

 

[Gareth J]

..... Anything else is just asking to jump in and find oneself having to discreetly asking one's buddy, "Hey, could you open my valve?"

You know, like I do.

The other one, is after kitting up, finding you are still tied to the bench - or at least your set is. (Immediate beer fine).

Like others, I've had the boat 'help' turn my cylinder off. 'Holiday' diving (single cylinder, warm water), where the crew help (?).
I had completed all the buddy checks and was waiting to enter when a crew member turned my air 'on'.
Luckily he followed the 1/4 back so I could breath - slowly - reach back and turn the cylinder on fully.

Like others, I was taught to turn the cylinder back 1/4 turn when turning it on.
My understanding for this practice was to avoid damage to the cylinder valve. People attempting to open or close an already open or closed cylinder and applying force to the valve to move the 'stiff valve'.
I notice, that now we teach fully open, we have more damaged cylinder valves in the club than the old days of the 1/4 back practice.
I have to be honest, I still use the 1/4 back on my kit, although using a CCR most of the time its academic.

Gareth

 

[caruso]

My understanding for this practice was to avoid damage to the cylinder valve. People attempting to open or close an already open or closed cylinder and applying force to the valve to move the 'stiff valve'.

^^This. I still turn my valve back a quarter from full open for this reason, so the helpful crew which exists on most boats - like it or not-, that are compelled to give your valve that counterclockwise twist right before you splash knows it's open and isn't going to overcrank an already open valve.

 

[MichaelMc]

Also, I don't really understand how someone could take 2 breaths off a regulator and not notice the valve was closed - even if it's been pre charged. I've tried doing that on purpose. I get much less than 1/2 a breath from air remaining inside my regulators/hoses. Maybe it would work if I had four hoses and one of them was a 6' long hose or something?

Two breaths -- without watching SPG -- does not ensure my valve is even cracked. I can take 2-3 calm happy breaths from my long hose with valve off (Mk25/S600/7'/22"), in the middle of a NAUI DM drill. Checking the valve is the way for me.

(and BC inflate, and breathing watching SPG. And I've aborted a valve off descent.)

 

[TrimixToo]

So, after a primary light failure and a suit leak (self-inflicted, caused by fabric through my neck seal), with my dive's objectives completely thwarted, I decided on the way up to see what happened when the valve is open 1/4 turn. At 70' on deco (not working), there was a slight but very perceptible increase in breathing difficulty on EAN50. At 1/3-1/2 turn open, this all went away. This was all while the (LP) tank was full.

Don't try this at home. Your Mileage May Vary. Prepared in a facility that is not nut-free. Professional driver (diver?) on a closed course (well, open circuit). And so on...

 

[Saboteur]

I don't dive doubles, as already stated. This was pointed out and responded to earlier in the thread.

There is a lot of negativity being expressed towards this check. Here is the reality.

I always physically check my valve before donning my rig. I do not do a 1/4 turn as it is unnecessary.The breathing / SPG check immediately before splashing is a backup check that costs me nothing. I do not consider myself infallible like some posting here obviously do.

In addition, it is not uncommon while at the door waiting to splash for a crew member to put their hand on your tank to steady you. On occasion, said crew member may also decide to do you a "favour" and check your air for you. Most common on boats that see a lot of vacation divers. These "helpful" souls require checking up on if they have touched your valve at all. My own testing with my tanks has found that in addition to it being obvious on a breathing / SPG check if they have turned your air completely off, the needle does in fact move if they have turned it off and back a 1/4 turn.

If the breathing check were to miss it and the rig became harder to breathe at depth, it is a pretty simple matter to either open the valve where you are or come back up to resolve.

This check costs nothing and can catch a closed or partially opened valve. That is a fact.

No check will prevent every possible mishap. But I fail to see why this particular one is generating such negativity. It has its place, and it works for me and many others.

Dive and let dive.

And some ops don't want guests assembling/checking/touching their own gear at all. I agree I'll continue to do the breathe/SPG check. I also purge the octo while breathing the primary/observing the gauge to put a higher flow demand on the system.

 

[Killercavecow]

@Superlyte27

Pete, next time I even think about posting something. Beat the sh*t out of me. I'll thank you.

I'm digging the thread, and the information it brought forth. Don't feel bad for others reactions, you can only control your reactions.

I'm grateful for you bringing this info up, thanks!

 

[gbf]

Perhaps. Not worth quibbling over. I would think that debunked meant that it was at one time thought to be necessary. Although it isn't, as a Navy trained steam plant mechanic, I still do it. I use my blinkers in Florida too, and that has been totally debunked....

"Florida Man Uses Blinker"

 

[Sea Buddy]

I turn off the tank valve after fitting and testing the setup to verify pressure. I would turn on the valve and check again right before I put it on my back. You should always check the valve and reg RIGHT before you dive in.theres always chance of people making mistakes regardless of their intention. So everyone is responsible for their own gear checks.