DIR- Generic Drinking the DIR koolaid

[MichaelMc]

In terms of getting AOW so dive boats let you on, SDI (or SSI) 'AOW' recognition card is an option. Not the universal front desk recognition as Padi, but more than GUE. It takes 4 complete SDI/TDI specialties and 25 dives. Not cheaper than Padi AOW, but you may feel better about the card.

"Complete four SDI, TDI, or ERDI Specialty Diver courses or equivalent; only 1 course without dives, may be credited towards the SDI Advanced Diver development program, with the exception of SDI Computer Nitrox"

After Fundies doing something like SDI/TDI deep, nitrox, intro-tech or sidemount, and night or navigation for the SDI AOW would then make sense.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Just to clarify, I agree with/recommend this order and was what I did as well.

My thinking is that whether Fundies-before-AOW goes smoothly depends on how skilled and how open-minded the AOW instructor is. I can envision an instructor whose ego feels bruised by an AOW student who has mastered the Fundies skills, questions the instructor's dive plan, etc. For instance, there you the AOW student are, solving some sort of puzzle underwater as the part of the Deep dive where you see if the depth impairs your ability, and you're doing it while maintaining horizontal trim but the instructor is kneeling on the sand. A good, open-minded instructor would just smile, but I have seen relatively inexperienced instructors whom I believe would insist on everything being done their way--likely contrary to the way GUE taught it. But has been said many times before, it all depends on the instructor, and there are even instructors who teach for both GUE and another agency.

Bottom line: If the OP takes Fundies before AOW, I would suggest making extra sure the AOW instructor is a good fit.

 

[sigxbill]

It seems the thread has turned into, "get a padi aow card - because there might be, maybe, sometime, somewhere in your future, the possibility of maybe running into an operation that only takes that card." Someone mentioned earlier that their thought was that r3 was only about selling courses - well what is this? This is fear tactics selling at their best!

Honestly - how often does one go on a dive vacation with no plan, randomly picks a new dive op with no contact, and shows up with no reservation just before the boat leaves - only to discover the boat has room for one more, but you can't go - because you forgot your padi aow card and no other card will work? This scenario is few and far between!

First of all, show me a dive op that only accepts padi, and I'll show you one that accepts visa right next door!
Second, while such an exclusive dive op might somewhere exist, one might ask themselves, "Is that the operation I want to dive with?" Because chances are, their target market is likely the cattle boat type.
Third, one way to mitigate the fear of not carrying a padi card is to look for operators with other agency affiliations.
Fourth, by making contact and a reservation in advance, you not only secure a guaranteed spot on a boat that is actually going out, but get all the equivalent card issues sorted in advance.

Take fundies / essentials now, and if by chance you do actually find a padi only operation that you absolutely have to dive with, take that as an opportunity to hire them for your aow guided dives. That way you get the boat, five guided dives, and a souvenir card all together in one nifty package deal! And if you never run into such an op, then you are ahead of the game because you never had to buy that card.

Every once in a while someone mentions the nebulous padi only op, so please post some verifiable references to such operations, and let's review them and their competitors.

Cheers

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

There is nothing "wrong" with Fundies first, it is just not optimal if you want to do deeper/nitrox dives from charter boats in the short term. Charters simply might not recognize the GUE card (same with RAID--pretty much unheard of in the U.S.--this thread was the first I ever heard of it--good standards, though). That might or might not matter for you.

This is "real world" advice to allow you to get out and get diving with the widest options available early on--not a critique of GUE (hopefully it is clear I am a fan of their standards). It sounds like it is a much longer and more expensive process to get certified for the equivalent diving through GUE or other more tech oriented agencies. Maybe, for you, the wait and expense will be worth it.

Here is the irony: AOW certifies you to do dives (yes, 130') that AOW does not really prepare you for. Fundies prepares you very well for those very same dives, but does not certify you to to them with its 100' limit.

 

[CptTightPants21]

My thinking is that whether Fundies-before-AOW goes smoothly depends on how skilled and how open-minded the AOW instructor is. I can envision an instructor whose ego feels bruised by an AOW student who has mastered the Fundies skills, questions the instructor's dive plan, etc. For instance, there you the AOW student are, solving some sort of puzzle underwater as the part of the Deep dive where you see if the depth impairs your ability, and you're doing it while maintaining horizontal trim but the instructor is kneeling on the sand. A good, open-minded instructor would just smile, but I have seen relatively inexperienced instructors whom I believe would insist on everything being done their way--likely contrary to the way GUE taught it. But has been said many times before, it all depends on the instructor, and there are even instructors who teach for both GUE and another agency.

Bottom line: If the OP takes Fundies before AOW, I would suggest making extra sure the AOW instructor is a good fit.

Agree with this (part of the reason you may want to find a GUE instructor that can also give you AOW).

And also, fundies should not be thought of as better than AOW, but rather a compliment. There are several important skills that (should) be covered in AOW that are not addressed in fundies. Running a reel, compass use, navigation, use of a pony, a few others such as actually diving at night are not covered in fundies.

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

It seems the thread has turned into, "get a padi aow card - because there might be, maybe, sometime, somewhere in your future, the possibility of maybe running into an operation that only takes that card." Someone mentioned earlier that their thought was that r3 was only about selling courses - well what is this? This is fear tactics selling at their best!

Honestly - how often does one go on a dive vacation with no plan, randomly picks a new dive op with no contact, and shows up with no reservation just before the boat leaves - only to discover the boat has room for one more, but you can't go - because you forgot your padi aow card and no other card will work? This scenario is ridiculous!

First of all, show me a dive op that only accepts padi, and I'll show you one that accepts visa - right next door!
Second, while such an exclusive dive op might somewhere exist, one might ask themselves, "Is that the operation I want to dive with?" Because chances are, their target market is likely the cattle boat type.
Third, one way to mitigate the fear of not carrying a padi card is to search for operators with other affiliations.
Fourth, by making contact and a reservation in advance, you secure a guaranteed spot on a boat that is actually going out, and get all the equivalent card issues sorted.
Finally, every once in a while someone mentions the nebulous padi only op, so please post some verifiable references to such operations, and let's review them and their competitors.

Cheers

Sorry, the "hate PADI and never get AOW because they make money" simply does not offer a path in the real world. It is not fear-mongering, as plainly I have no financial stake in it. When I began showing up in the Keys wanting to dive some of the great wrecks in 100 to 130', I was turned down despite my logbook and 40 years of certification. They were very specific (NAUI advanced would have been accepted as well) These are real events. The shops/charters might have good reasons for this, or maybe not, but there it is.

And, yes, I have traveled on business and gotten an unexpected free day, and went diving with no advance planning, by just finding a boat with an open slot and rental gear and showing up. Not every dive needs to be a planned expedition with shopping around. Never any doubt about my ability to do that since I got the AOW card. No one likes to spend $300.00, but a new diver does get some additional training and dive experience for this, plus the ability to dive anywhere without concern. Why begin by getting a relatively obscure cert that might restrict your accessibility to dives, when AOW gets you everywhere? Then go on to advanced training like Fundies.

As for the cost of training, that is another topic . . . . GUE training will be costly (worth it if you want to spend the money). Much more than AOW.

 

[sigxbill]

Running a reel, compass use, navigation, use of a pony, a few others such as actually diving at night are not covered in fundies.

I know you purposefully used the word "should" to make this point, but to reiterate, those skills are not necessarily covered in padi aow either ...

You make a good point though - that there are important skills and information not covered in fundies, and that is why gue and utd offer Rec 2 and Rec 3. Rec 2 and Rec 3 allow the student - who likes the way they learned in fundies / essentials - to continue their recreational learning following a dir track - instead of being forced to go back to traditional. This diver may be completely satisfied with Rec 3; and if Tec 1 ever becomes a goal, stands a better chance of passing on the initial try.

cheers

 

[sigxbill]

I was turned down despite my logbook and 40 years of certification. They were very specific (NAUI advanced would have been accepted as well)

Just curious, did you try showing a card that some might consider to be higher than aow, such as Rescue, Deep Diver, Master Diver, or a technical card, etc.?

And FYI, aow certifies to 100, not 130 as noted in your previous post

Cheers

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

How many of you GUE and UTD divers have actually been kicked off the boat for not having a PADI card? Are there any real stories?

Prior to doing my UTD course, I randomly emailed places in the Caribbean (Bonaire, Utila) and also outside like Philippines and Thailand and asked if they would recognize a UTD card. The place in Bonaire knew UTD very well but they told me that they may not have UTD standard mixes and I may have to let them know in advance to arrange those. Two places in Philippines and Thailand were quite puzzled by the question itself. I was told by one of them (do not remember which) that they have tourists come from all parts of the world with all sorts of certifications so while they were a PADI facility, they do not turn anyone away for a different C card.

 

[rjack321]

Just curious, did you try showing a card that some might consider to be higher than aow, such as Rescue, Deep Diver, Master Diver, or a technical card, etc.?

And FYI, aow certifies to 100, not 130 as noted in your previous post

Yup and you would be shocked at the insanity and lack of critical thinking skills in the dive industry. Totally "shocked"...​

How many of you GUE and UTD divers have actually been kicked off the boat for not having a PADI card? Are there any real stories?

Not "kicked off" but on one charter that wanted to see my logbook and AOW. I first tried showing them my logbook and my GUE tech1 card. Nope weren't interested in that despite it saying "150ft training depth" on the back (its old)
Logbook and (GUE) cave2 card? Nope
Logbook and UTD DM card blessing me to "lead" dives to double AOW depths? Nope
Had to be AOW - it was near the bottom of my pile and once they saw that they were happy and their "insurance" covered me (that was their excuse for wanting it)

Other operators have balked at my SSI and NAUI cards, some of these people knew less than 20 words in English. No matter how limited their English skills, I can guarantee you "PADI" is a word they know.