Deciding on gear and whether to get it

[Bubbletrubble]

Why the 7-ft. hose?

Brass-and-glass SPGs are nice, but so are the plastic ones protected by a plastic/rubber housing. Both last a long time.

$825 vs. $900. That's still a significant price difference.

The Hollis 221 second stage doesn't have a breathing adjustment knob. That can be a pretty nice feature. The Hollis 212 and the HOG second stages have it.

If you plan on getting a tech certification or taking an "approved" tech class, you would be eligible to take a HOG reg repair course. If you are a recreational diver with no tech aspirations, then you cannot take the course. I suppose it's a nice option if you think you might want to DIY service your regs in the future and you're going down the tech route. I find it strange that the company/TDI is so adamant about not letting recreational divers take the course.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

We plan to start doing more diving around here and hope to get into it for good, and hopefully do a NC OBX trip this summer for wrecks and spearing.

My LDS is hooking me up with an awesome deal that I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with. Hollis Elite II harness, Hollis Alu Backplate, Hollis S38 Wing, Hollis 212/DC1 DIN Regulator & 7' hose, Hollis 221 Backup reg, Hollis Brass&Glass SPG for $855+tax, $900 total. I'm pretty much dead set on that now. Any opinions on that setup?

I'm no expert, so just take these comments as I mean them: Things that popped into my head as I read your post.

1) If you are planning to do local diving/wrecks/spearing in a non-tropical location (VA/NC), I wonder if you may want to choose a steel backplate over and aluminum one. It seems like you would likely need enough weight to "absorb" the steel plate and thereby need less "extra" weight. (Although you may have trim or other reasons for choosing the aluminum; I'm just mentioning it.)

2) Personally, I would choose a basic harness over any "fancy" type one. Now, that said, I haven't used the latter, but I do really love my basic harness. I like that it's nice and clean, and that it's infinitely adjustable (overall length, D-ring placement, etc.) (There may be some limitations on that with the fancy one?) The fact that it was slightly less expensive didn't sway me, but since you are on a tight budget, maybe? (Also it can be "re-webbed" very inexpensively when the time comes.)

3) You've probably already checked this, but if not you may want to make sure that the places you will be diving either have DIN or convertible tank valves, and if not that you buy an DIN-to-yoke adapter and that you will be happy using it (my guess is that in NC they do rent DIN-valved tanks; not sure if you plan to dive much elsewhere).

 

[victorzamora]

Bubble: the reason I wanted the 7' hose is for the primary second stage. The setup I like the best is if my buddy is out of air, I want them to take it out of my mouth. To make diving easier in an emergency situation, I wanted a long hose. Also, it'll be more comfortable wrapped around below my left arm and then back around into my mouth than just around my head. The secondary second stage (octo) will sit on a necklace right under my head/just above my sternum. I'm looking for a good location, but only dives will get that right...you know? I'll be using the 212 as my primary reg with the 221 around my neck as backup. The price difference is over 70%, so there was really no need to get the nicer one as my backup.
As for tec classes, I have no plans for them. They're beyond anything I'll ever need. I want Divemaster so I can take friends diving to talk them into trying it, and I want rescue so that if need be I'll have the training to do something. The LDS here is big into Hollis, so for at least the next 2 years I'll have a Hollis distributor/technician around me...and Hollis is Oceanic, I'm sure they're not hard to find.

 

[victorzamora]

I'm no expert, so just take these comments as I mean them: Things that popped into my head as I read your post.

1) If you are planning to do local diving/wrecks/spearing in a non-tropical location (VA/NC), I wonder if you may want to choose a steel backplate over and aluminum one. It seems like you would likely need enough weight to "absorb" the steel plate and thereby need less "extra" weight. (Although you may have trim or other reasons for choosing the aluminum; I'm just mentioning it.)

The reason I'm wanting the aluminum one is so I can pack it in a suitcase and those 4 pounds really do make a difference (Alu-2lbs, SS-6lbs). A couple extra pounds on my weight belt really doesn't annoy me at all.

2) Personally, I would choose a basic harness over any "fancy" type one. Now, that said, I haven't used the latter, but I do really love my basic harness. I like that it's nice and clean, and that it's infinitely adjustable (overall length, D-ring placement, etc.) (There may be some limitations on that with the fancy one?) The fact that it was slightly less expensive didn't sway me, but since you are on a tight budget, maybe? (Also it can be "re-webbed" very inexpensively when the time comes.)

The difference between the nicer and cheaper harnesses is that the Elite 2 has a couple features that make it more comfortable. It has a triangular plate that makes the shoulder strap's angle more comfortable. It also has quick-release snaps on the shoulder straps. It's still [-]just[/-] nearly as adjustable as the basic webbing. The only real difference being that I can't put D-rings ON the quick releases. He gave me such a deep discount on the whole set that it doesn't make it much more expensive than just cheap webbing. Cheaper webbing is $28, plus $20 per cam band...so $60 total. The Elite 2 was quoted at just over that, so I'm happy about it.

3) You've probably already checked this, but if not you may want to make sure that the places you will be diving either have DIN or convertible tank valves, and if not that you buy an DIN-to-yoke adapter and that you will be happy using it (my guess is that in NC they do rent DIN-valved tanks; not sure if you plan to dive much elsewhere).

Around here there are DIN-tanks. I chose to go with DIN because it seems to be better performing and safer, and I'll just get a DIN/Yoke adapter for diving when I don't have the luxury of diving DIN. The adapters are pretty cheap, so it's not that big of a deal.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Sounds like you're all set then. Enjoy your new gear! My diving experience improved significantly when I got mine

 

[theduckguru]

A couple of years ago, it would have been really easy to get the gear you wanted within your budget due to the really bad economy and people liquidating inventory. To get what you want within your budget now, you are going to have to be more patient. Take your time, when you find a really good deal on one piece of equipment, buy it. Then start your search over the next piece. Patience is the key.

 

[victorzamora]

BlueSparkle, you didn't sound at all negative. I really appreciate the input, I do. I was simply answering your concerns. Between you, Bubble, Jim, and TSandM (and a few others), you've made me think of more questions than I could've otherwise. The biggest piece of advice I've received that I've broken is the simple harness vs the complex one.

Bubble, back to way back when...I might be able to cut a pretty significant chunk of change out of the overall cost if I switch to two 221 regs. Does the adjustable reg really make a big difference? I've been diving with adjustable regs before, but none of the levers have ever actually done anything at all. Is that because they're broken/crappy rentals or because they actually don't do anything.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I chose to go with DIN because it seems to be better performing and safer, and I'll just get a DIN/Yoke adapter for diving when I don't have the luxury of diving DIN. The adapters are pretty cheap, so it's not that big of a deal.

The yoke connection performs great and is very safe.
In an OW recreational environment (non-overhead), the yoke connection is very reliable. This presumes that you check the o-ring on the tank valve as part of your pre-dive ritual. Strangely, not everyone does this.

The choice between DIN- or yoke-configured regs should be based on the kind of tank valve you will be using.
If you own DIN tanks, then you need to go with DIN regs.
If you have to rent tanks, then that's another story...
The vast majority of rental tanks here in SoCal are yoke configured.
If you can rent DIN tanks, then I suppose it would be OK to get DIN-configured regs.
It bothers some people (depending on their gear configuration) to use DIN regs with a spin-on DIN-to-yoke adapter.

Bubble, back to way back when...I might be able to cut a pretty significant chunk of change out of the overall cost if I switch to two 221 regs. Does the adjustable reg really make a big difference? I've been diving with adjustable regs before, but none of the levers have ever actually done anything at all. Is that because they're broken/crappy rentals or because they actually don't do anything.

I suspect that you didn't really understand what the levers/knobs on second stages were supposed to do.
In all of the properly tuned/serviced regs I have encountered, the levers/knobs always had an effect.

Personally, I like being able to tweak the cracking pressure on a second stage by simply twisting the inhalation adjustment knob. This allows me to have more control over the performance of the reg underwater. I prefer to tune my regs for maximum performance. The knob allows me to detune them when it's appropriate. I realize that some people couldn't be bothered with this sort of thing. I can't stand it when a reg isn't adjusted to my liking.

It is nice to have identical second stages for your primary and backup/octo.

I asked the question about the 7-ft. hose because it really isn't necessary in an OW (non-overhead) environment.
If you prefer the long hose primary + necklaced backup hose configuration, you might want to try out a 5 or 6-ft. primary hose.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you haven't dived a long hose configuration before. Make sure you practice air-sharing with your buddy (which is a good idea no matter what hose configuration you use). Donation of the primary and switching to the backup should be automatic.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Personally, I like being able to tweak the cracking pressure on a second stage by simply twisting the inhalation adjustment knob. This allows me to have more control over the performance of the reg underwater. I prefer to tune my regs for maximum performance. The knob allows me to detune them when it's appropriate.

Me too. Currently my alternate second stage doesn't have the cracking-pressure knob and I wish it did (luckily, I can add one to it, after which they will both have one). I find it really useful - although like you say, that probably doesn't apply across the board.

victorzamora: Glad you didn't take my remarks as negative. And sorry that it looks like you're replying to a mystery post. I decided to edit my post, and thought I did. However when I looked back, it wasn't edited; but the edited version was still in the text box so I "activated it." I guess you were replying right around the same time.

 

[victorzamora]

The yoke connection performs great and is very safe.
In an OW recreational environment (non-overhead), the yoke connection is very reliable. This presumes that you check the o-ring on the tank valve as part of your pre-dive ritual. Strangely, not everyone does this.

The choice between DIN- or yoke-configured regs should be based on the kind of tank valve you will be using.
If you own DIN tanks, then you need to go with DIN regs.
If you have to rent tanks, then that's another story...
The vast majority of rental tanks here in SoCal are yoke configured.
If you can rent DIN tanks, then I suppose it would be OK to get DIN-configured regs.
It bothers some people (depending on their gear configuration) to use DIN regs with a spin-on DIN-to-yoke adapter.

About the DIN/Yoke reg. My fear with all big purchases is that I'll quickly outgrow them. For example, I purchased standard roller blades for hockey to save money, but had to go back and get them when I started getting competitive. I've done that a lot through my childhood...and realized that as toys get more expensive you can't always just buy another one because you want to, so I buy things that I can't outgrow as easily...and if I grow into tec-diving I'll want to not have to repurchase regs (and tanks, if I buy tanks). Also, I do not own my own tanks. The LDS here has DIN and Yoke tanks. Really, my decision for Din over yoke was swayed by the LDS owners. One of the two owners is very big into tec diving, the other is getting into it. They both recommended Din with adapter over purchasing a Yoke reg...and they said there were cheap places to get them online that I should look at, so it's not to make money off of me.

I suspect that you didn't really understand what the levers/knobs on second stages were supposed to do.
In all of the properly tuned/serviced regs I have encountered, the levers/knobs always had an effect.

Personally, I like being able to tweak the cracking pressure on a second stage by simply twisting the inhalation adjustment knob. This allows me to have more control over the performance of the reg underwater. I prefer to tune my regs for maximum performance. The knob allows me to detune them when it's appropriate. I realize that some people couldn't be bothered with this sort of thing. I can't stand it when a reg isn't adjusted to my liking.

No, I understand what it's supposed to do (I think). I believe it's to adjust how much suction is needed before the reg feeds me air, correct? Unfortunately, I've only ever been diving with rentals. None of them have seemed to do a thing! In my 8 years of diving and nearly 300 dives I've never met one that made a difference

It is nice to have identical second stages for your primary and backup/octo.

I understand this completely. I could've gotten a cheap, slimline octo and been set but that's not how I did it. From what I understand, the 212 and 221 are practically identical except for looks and adjustment. I am paying extra to get as similar as possible on my octo as I have on my primary.

I asked the question about the 7-ft. hose because it really isn't necessary in an OW (non-overhead) environment.
If you prefer the long hose primary + necklaced backup hose configuration, you might want to try out a 5 or 6-ft. primary hose.

I asked the LDS owner about a 5' or 6' foot hose. He recently switched from a shorter hose to a 7' hose so he could have it wrapped under his arm instead of around his head. The other LDS owner dives with a 10' hose and tucks the excess into his waist belt.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you haven't dived a long hose configuration before. Make sure you practice air-sharing with your buddy (which is a good idea no matter what hose configuration you use). Donation of the primary and switching to the backup should be automatic.

You're right, I never have. The only diving I've ever done has been with a vest-style BCD and a short primary reg hose and a slightly longer octo hose. Really basic rec diving rental setup. Luckily, I've always been a pretty quick learner and have figured out ways to make muscle memory take over quicker. Also, luckily, I've never had a consistent placement of my octo, so it's just a matter of diving with a consistent gear setup before I become comfortable doing that. I've also always been comfortable underwater and pulling my regulator out...so I don't think that giving someone my primary in an emergency situation would be too hard to get used to. Plus, my buddy will be my fiancee so we'll learn together.