Diving incident at Eagles Nest Sink

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Everyone thinks that they are awesome and important these days.

The overcompensation for this delusion is insults, aggression, and and even violence towards those not feeding or affirming their false ego. There are mobs centered around this behaviour.

Humanity has lost it's humility by thinking that it is better than it really is.

We are all irrelevant.

That's pretty nihilistic.

I actually think that SB is often a supportive community, especially after tragedies. And I have learned a lot from people here. Yeah, not everyone is helpful or respectful, but just like real life, there is a bell curve for everything.
 
If I ever die in a cave, I hope that my friends fight to protect my memory like everyone who knew these deceased has, and will. I think we all agree, their memory, and their families, are the most important thing right now.

After every accident, and those accidents that turn into deaths, in any hobby in which I participate, I have friends and family reach out to see if it was me, and then to try to persuade me to stop that hobby. It really helps assuage their fears, to have some basic idea of what happened, so I can help them understand the steps I take to protect myself. In most cases, that "first level root cause analysis" is usually easy to see in a short time frame.

For example, a diver who didn't analyze his tanks. I explain to them how I analyze my tanks, and that assuages their fears. But, that doesn't mean I can't get back to them with that explanation in a week, a month, etc. My desire to know as soon as possible, I hope never leads me to intrude on the space that the recovery team needs to do their job, both underwater, and mentally and emotionally after the dive.

Some level of details available for reporters, also goes a long way to directing the conversation in the news. For instance, in the case of likely medical deaths, that fact can help us entirely avoid the discussion that it was the cave that was dangerous, because the death would have been likely on an open water dive or strenuous bicycle ride, as well.

After so long of most cases fitting neatly into a broken guideline, and based on the facts posted so far, then if EN is the Everest of diving, then I think this is the Titanic of accidents. Certainly, the diver's skill, dedication to survival, and loyalty to each other as a diving team, seems nearly unparalleled. And because of that, I think we have more potential to learn from this accident, than we have in a very long time...

But now that we know enough to put some of our fears at ease (your gas purchased where they got theirs, is probably fine; your JJ rebreather has no new known faults, etc), and knowing that to learn every lesson will require much more time (analysis of gear, video, official reports,etc) , we should all focus entirely on supporting the friends and family, and there is no excuse not to make that our only focus. And once all of the lessons are learned, we should continue to honor and respect their memory, and support their family, because it's a small sport and we all have to look out for each other. I hope that if something ever happens to me, you would do the same to my family and memory, and I'll always do my best to treat others, as I hope to be treated and remembered.
 
Why do these cave incident threads seem to always dissolve into confrontational posts and conflicting accounts?

We live in a time when "everyone" feels that they're entitled to "everything" instantly...

Reading that initial report made my skin crawl. I can't for the life of me even begin to understand what happened to those poor guys, but I have nothing but RESPECT for those of you involved in the recovery. I hope you all are doing ok.
 
If I ever die in a cave, I hope that my friends fight to protect my memory like everyone who knew these deceased has, and will. I think we all agree, their memory, and their families, are the most important thing right now.

.

If i die in a cave my family will always be aware that I died doing something I didn't have to do because I enjoy it. That makes me at some level selfish.

The memory of me is not enhanced by avoiding the cause(s) of my death in an attempt to pretend that I didn't make a mistake of some type(fitness, gear, plan, execution of said plan), the memory of me is enhanced (or taken away) by the person I am while alive.

I am a instructor, I believe very strongly in accident analysis as the foundation of safety. I have asked some close friends in the community to examine critically and make public the how and why of my death if it occurs while diving. (and I will haunt you guys if you don't) It I mess up, get complacent, allow my fitness to dive get below what is safe then there are lessons there that if public will hopefully at the very least cause other divers to pause and reflect on their own diving planing, fitness, approach and maybe just possibly it will contribute to them better mitigating their diving risk than I did (based at my killing myself while diving).

I will be dead, leaving behind pain, sorrow, questions, a family and friends. My death in pursuing a hobby (yeah I make my living in diving, but I dive beyond what is strictly needed to make a living) will be completely meaningless if no lessons are learnt from it, even if no new lessons. I have been a dive instructor for most of my adult life, I would prefer if my death if while diving does something that has greatly enhanced my life, namely teach.

The thread on my diving death needs to be at least 50 pages, and I will ask the mods that they be very lite with moderating it, I have been known to enjoy a contentious thread or two.
 
Reading that initial report made my skin crawl. I can't for the life of me even begin to understand what happened to those poor guys, but I have nothing but RESPECT for those of you involved in the recovery. I hope you all are doing ok.
Mine too. They seem to have been properly trained, experienced and equipped and done everything right to set up the dive and yet it went horribly, disasterously wrong. Hopefully something will be learned, but at this point it's just confusing as hell. Being willing to do the recovery stuff is something I've got nothing but admiration for.
 
; one diver suffered a minor DCS hit.

That I am very sorry to hear,because that last double fatality at Eagles Nest of trained cave divers resulted in a recovery diver getting bent.

Ken you knew Henry Nicholson just as I did, and he is known for more than having a tunnel named after him at Peacock,but establishing the interaction between law enforcement and cave divers to allow for system of recovery we have now. Henry was a rarity of being a police chief and an active cave diver, and helping to make sure our sport has a future, as well as the recovery divers now,for which I am thankful for. People don't realize that recovery divers are the savior of our sport, and without this task cave diving would be banned, as was an intention when Henry stepped in. If there is an accident and no one can recover a body for law enforcement when needed, then cave diving stops.
 
I am completely confused how so many are expressing the narrative that the recovery divers are not very valued or that their efforts and sacrifices are not both respected and appreciated.

When concerns are expressed that no meaningful accident analysis will occur it is not a demand for instant gratification and information, it is lamenting that the ICURR has moved away from providing and the cave agencies as well.

If there was consistent accident reporting and analysis there would be more patience, trust and less of the many, many, incorrect rumours that occur after each cave accident.

It's truly a shame that somehow this has become in the minds of so many fantastic and caring recovery divers perceived as an attack on them. It is anything but.
 
recovery divers are not very valued or that their efforts and sacrifices are not both respected and appreciated.

.

I don't think people are saying that,but an understanding and appreciation of what they do, as well as the stress they bear is important. Everyone wants that immediate report of what happened? Often not it isn't forth coming because information must be disseminated. Recovery divers on site at odd hours, dealing with grieving family close by, and the law enforcement needs. Then you have to complete a report which goes to law enforcement,thus reliving everything, plus well meaning friends that call prying for information. They are truly in the middle with forums asking for more information,but they really can't talk about it publically since it is technically a crime scene until deemed otherwise by law enforcement. The team that worked this last accident have operated professionally and done an outstanding task, and they probably want some time to breathe. The arm chair quarterbacking will continue and the what-if scenarios will continue while people engage in rationalization to make themselves feel better.
 
Everyone thinks that they are awesome and important these days.

The overcompensation for this delusion is insults, aggression, and and even violence towards those not feeding or affirming their false ego. There are mobs centered around this behaviour.

Humanity has lost it's humility by thinking that it is better than it really is.

We are all irrelevant.

I don't know where you're getting this from.

I for one am the best at humility. I'm actually getting a lot of credit from a lot of people for my humility, believe me... believe me!
 
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