Grey Goose
Contributor
Would the 720's or 281's be appropriate to use for pull over gloves (onto cuff-side Viking rings)? I currently use the Magid 935 rubber glove but hear that they have stopped producing.
Ultima Dry Glove System question
- Thread starter Basking Ridge Diver
- Start date
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They both have a thin cotton liner which would soak up water if they were not tucked into rings. They also don't stretch like rubber gloves so they wouldn't hold tight over the outside of a ring.
Deep South Divers
Contributor
The liner in the 720 is acrylic. The liner in the 282 is nylon. For what we do, they're both superior to cotton (which is what is in the 490s, the 620s, the 660s, the 660ESDs, and the KV660s) because the synthetic fabrics like nylon and acrylic tend to dry faster and breed bacteria less than organic cotton does.
Nonetheless, Maxbottomtime is right... To do what you're looking to do, you need an unlined glove. Latex (rubber) is what you are used to. Nitrile is much tougher but not as stretchy. Neoprene might be a good thing to try as well.
...But whatever material you choose, make sure it is unlined so that your rings have a smooth surface to seal against.
I would simply head over to the SHOWA website and look around. Find half a dozen gloves that look like they might work, and order free samples of them and see for yourself what works best.
Yes, it's time-consuming, but worth it.
Nonetheless, Maxbottomtime is right... To do what you're looking to do, you need an unlined glove. Latex (rubber) is what you are used to. Nitrile is much tougher but not as stretchy. Neoprene might be a good thing to try as well.
...But whatever material you choose, make sure it is unlined so that your rings have a smooth surface to seal against.
I would simply head over to the SHOWA website and look around. Find half a dozen gloves that look like they might work, and order free samples of them and see for yourself what works best.
Yes, it's time-consuming, but worth it.
h53driver
Registered
This is a great tool, and looks so easy! BUT!!!! for some reason, when you stretch your oring, it appears MUCH MORE STRETCHY OR PLIABLE than mine. I don't know if mine are made of a higher durometer rubber, but they definitely do not stretch like yours do. They came stock in the Waterproof Ultima box, about 1 month ago. That is my problem I think, otherwise they would be much easier to put on.
When I pull on them, they hardly stretch at all. The ones you are using look like they stretch at least an inch. NO WAY mine will do that. Wonder if I got bad ones...don't know. Frustrated!!!!
Deep South Divers
Contributor
Mine barely stretch at all too... And I have two sets of Ultimas (and therefore like 8 or 12 sets of these o-rings).
I think the tool really is that good that it makes it look so easy.
I think the tool really is that good that it makes it look so easy.
I had my 720 out today, on my right and 282 on the left to directly compare. I had thin liners in. 80min and the water 43f.
The 282 was considerably warmer, as you could guess, as it has the acrylic liner. I was hoping for the 720 to be close, but alas no.
I've got about 20 dives on my 282 without any issues, now if I can just get the right one to stay dry. I'll give it one more try, and then call no joy. I've been pretty happy with the 620 I have as a backup on the right, I may go back to. But pretty sure I'm done with the 660's.
The 282 was considerably warmer, as you could guess, as it has the acrylic liner. I was hoping for the 720 to be close, but alas no.
I've got about 20 dives on my 282 without any issues, now if I can just get the right one to stay dry. I'll give it one more try, and then call no joy. I've been pretty happy with the 620 I have as a backup on the right, I may go back to. But pretty sure I'm done with the 660's.
Deep South Divers
Contributor
Great review! Thank you for it...
...So do you attribute the warmth of the 282's to be due to the "fuzzy" acrylic lining? FWIW, both gloves have a synthetic lining - it's just that the 282's are "furry" acrylic. The 720's are flat ("non-furry"), polyester, which essentially has the same value in that it "wicks" and dries quickly.
The 660's have a flat lining like the 720's, but are made of cotton - which I'm not a fan of because they never really dry out if you get them moist - even from perspiration.
To recap - which glove rings are you using?
Could your lack of seal on the right glove be attributed to the "furry" lining causing difficulty in sealing?
What brand/thickness of glove liner were you using?
How does the 720 (with a glove liner) compare with the 282 (with a glove liner) in terms of dexterity?
Thanks in advance.
I agree about the 660's... They were a great glove back in the day - and compared to latex (which was the only other option), offered a lot more durability... But I think that the modern materials (nitrile in the 720's and PU in the 282's, combined with either furry acrylic or flat polyester lining) are much better: Generally more durable, thinner, warmer, and stretchier.
A fairer comparison would be the SHOWA 720 vs. the SHOWA 281, which has a flat nylon lining that for all intents and purposes is more like the flat polyester lining like the 720's.
...So do you attribute the warmth of the 282's to be due to the "fuzzy" acrylic lining? FWIW, both gloves have a synthetic lining - it's just that the 282's are "furry" acrylic. The 720's are flat ("non-furry"), polyester, which essentially has the same value in that it "wicks" and dries quickly.
The 660's have a flat lining like the 720's, but are made of cotton - which I'm not a fan of because they never really dry out if you get them moist - even from perspiration.
To recap - which glove rings are you using?
Could your lack of seal on the right glove be attributed to the "furry" lining causing difficulty in sealing?
What brand/thickness of glove liner were you using?
How does the 720 (with a glove liner) compare with the 282 (with a glove liner) in terms of dexterity?
Thanks in advance.
I agree about the 660's... They were a great glove back in the day - and compared to latex (which was the only other option), offered a lot more durability... But I think that the modern materials (nitrile in the 720's and PU in the 282's, combined with either furry acrylic or flat polyester lining) are much better: Generally more durable, thinner, warmer, and stretchier.
A fairer comparison would be the SHOWA 720 vs. the SHOWA 281, which has a flat nylon lining that for all intents and purposes is more like the flat polyester lining like the 720's.
I think the warmth is due to the fuzzy liner. And it's wicks moisture away from your hand. I have the ultima rings same as you.
The right glove is 282 and no problems, I put the oring inside the liner, so when mounted the sealing surface is the smooth blue outside. I'm not sure why the right leaks. But I plan to mount one more without manipulating it at all once in place. I can be a perfectionist and want it really symmetric all the way around, so I push and pull on the material a bit. But I have realized it's really not a benefit. So when I put it on, it will stay that way, in hopes of not manipulating the thin material any more than needed. My jig makes it pretty easy.
I was using my heated liners without turning them on, they are just a thin polypropylene stretch glove, not much to them.
The 720's weren't that much better for dexterity than the 282. I handed them to my dive partner and that was his unsolicited response as well. The 281's are better than the 720 for sure in dexterity.
I agree putting the 720 head to the 281 would be a fair comparison. But the sizing is limited on both. The 281 only comes in xl and not xxl, but an option is to take out the liner, it's easy to do. And the 720 xxl runs a lot smaller than any of the other gloves I've tried.
the water is still to cold to compromise on a long rebreather dive. But may be a good experiment when the water warms up a bit. The new Santi heated liners I have are thick, and I can't see wearing them with anything other than the 281. So that is a future comparison I'm looking forward to.
The right glove is 282 and no problems, I put the oring inside the liner, so when mounted the sealing surface is the smooth blue outside. I'm not sure why the right leaks. But I plan to mount one more without manipulating it at all once in place. I can be a perfectionist and want it really symmetric all the way around, so I push and pull on the material a bit. But I have realized it's really not a benefit. So when I put it on, it will stay that way, in hopes of not manipulating the thin material any more than needed. My jig makes it pretty easy.
I was using my heated liners without turning them on, they are just a thin polypropylene stretch glove, not much to them.
The 720's weren't that much better for dexterity than the 282. I handed them to my dive partner and that was his unsolicited response as well. The 281's are better than the 720 for sure in dexterity.
I agree putting the 720 head to the 281 would be a fair comparison. But the sizing is limited on both. The 281 only comes in xl and not xxl, but an option is to take out the liner, it's easy to do. And the 720 xxl runs a lot smaller than any of the other gloves I've tried.
the water is still to cold to compromise on a long rebreather dive. But may be a good experiment when the water warms up a bit. The new Santi heated liners I have are thick, and I can't see wearing them with anything other than the 281. So that is a future comparison I'm looking forward to.
Deep South Divers
Contributor
Absolutely awesome review!
I'm still 5 or 6 months from being back in a drysuit (water was 84° yesterday), and I already have both of my Ultima Rings set up with 720s... But I'll fit a set of 282's as soon as I hole a 720, which probably will only take a month or two.
I look forward to testing a PU glove.
I'm still 5 or 6 months from being back in a drysuit (water was 84° yesterday), and I already have both of my Ultima Rings set up with 720s... But I'll fit a set of 282's as soon as I hole a 720, which probably will only take a month or two.
I look forward to testing a PU glove.
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