OOA after only a few minutes with a full tank at 17m

[chillyinCanada]

Let us *all* not forget that we are still posting in the Basic subforum.

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Question:

A recurring theme in this thread appears to be that either the DM or crew are physically 'checking' cylinder valves are open prior to entry. Is this a common procedure? maybe more prevalent in certain regions?

The reason I ask is that I've never seen this on any liveaboard, day or charter boat I've been on.

We are talking about certified divers after all. Surely as a minimum they should all be able to assemble and test their own kit and carry out an effective pre-dive check by this point. Even by the end of confined water training, students are expected to have completed this exercise 5 times, with gradually less input from staff. By OW certifying dives I'm only monitoring checks and not expecting to actively intervene to the point of turning a divers air on!

Just sayin'

 

[chillyinCanada]

Where do you and have you been fun diving @Graeme Fraser?

 

[Barnaby'sDad]

Question:

A recurring theme in this thread appears to be that either the DM or crew are physically 'checking' cylinder valves are open prior to entry. Is this a common procedure? maybe more prevalent in certain regions?

Yes. It is common in the US (east coast), from what I’ve seen. Both on boats and from random buddies. And yes...I’ve witnessed and had to correct people that closed valves.

I check my valve and regulators a minimum of three times on a boat. Once during initial gear assembly (then close valve and purge), once prior to putting gear on, and once prior to splashing (all taking at least three breaths while watching gauge).

The last time is often after a “helpful” crew member has screwed with the valve without me requesting it. If I notice someone going to touch the valve knob/wheel...I’ll just politely say “I’m good, thank you” and they won’t touch it.

I would be curious to know how many people have had an “OOA” experience due someone else “doing them a solid” by checking their valve.

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Where do you and have you been fun diving @Graeme Fraser?

Most of my boat dives are UK charters where you tend to have relatively experienced and self sufficient divers, even at recreational level.

From a holiday perspective I do at least one Red Sea liveaboard a year. Although there are guides and dive crew on board, you are expected to look after your own kit. Divers can either elect to go guided or unguided. They obviously cover everything in the brief, including reminders to carry out checks, but the rest is down to you, unless you specifically request additional assistance.

With regards to day boats, I've done these throughout the Med, Middle East, Indian Ocean, Asia, but again not seen (or noticed) this practice.

Admittedly, I've only done a few boat dives in Mexico and none in the US. My question wasn't trying to be facetious, just genuinely interested to see if this was a regional procedure.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Sorry Graeme, I wasn't either. Truly curious where you'd been.

You are quite advanced and of course, didn't start out in the Caribbean or Asia .

Unfortunately, it's still common in the Caribbean but they've certainly been catching on. Besides the "problem" of needing to save vacation divers that don't get out enough, from themselves, it's been my experience that many crew are trained to be helpful.

For example, a new "thing" in Belize is for guide to help the divers out of their fins at the ladder. Seriously disconcerting the first time or two but heck . . .I eventually decided just to go with the flow. Relax and enjoy it.

I'm not sure if this practice has been spreading or just what's up with that but this past winter in Bali, I had one guy who kept trying to do that, which may be all well and good if he knows how one's buckles work. I don't have spring straps, lol

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Sorry Graeme, I wasn't either. Truly curious where you'd been.

You are quite advanced and of course, didn't start out in the Caribbean or Asia .

Unfortunately, it's still common in the Caribbean but they've certainly been catching on. Besides the "problem" of needing to save vacation divers that don't get out enough, from themselves, it's been my experience that many crew are trained to be helpful.

For example, a new "thing" in Belize is for guide to help the divers out of their fins at the ladder. Seriously disconcerting the first time or two but heck . . .I eventually decided just to go with the flow. Relax and enjoy it.

I'm not sure if this practice has been spreading or just what's up with that but this past winter in Bali, I had one guy who kept trying to do that, which may be all well and good if he knows how one's buckles work. I don't have spring straps, lol

That makes sense.

Re: Red Sea LoB, the local Egyptian guides and crew are incredibly helpful and will do everything they can to make your holiday enjoyable and stress free. Yes they squeeze us fat westerners into our wetsuits, help with fins, carry kit off the RIB, etc, but not noticed any knob fiddling. I wonder if they've been specifically told not to as part of their training. Just curious. I'm mates with a couple of LOB guides so may ask next time I see them.

 

[chillyinCanada]

That makes sense.

Re: Red Sea LoB, the local Egyptian guides and crew are incredibly helpful and will do everything they can to make your holiday enjoyable and stress free. Yes they squeeze us fat westerners into our wetsuits, help with fins, carry kit off the RIB, etc, but not noticed any knob fiddling. I wonder if they've been specifically told not to as part of their training. Just curious. I'm mates with a couple of LOB guides so may ask next time I see them.

I've only been in Red Sea, tye once on an lob. Came down with bad flu 4 dives in and really can't recall whether or not an issue.

 

[doctormike]

I always assumed that DM valve fiddling was an apocryphal story, like being asked to show your paper logbook. Never noticed it myself (maybe they are sneaky!). But I guess there are enough first hand reports to confirm that it happens.

I know that forgetting to turn on a tank is a pretty common mistake, I wonder if there is a better way addressing that. Maybe having a crew member watch every diver breath off their reg while watching their SPGs before splashing? Don't know if that would be a logistical issue on crowded cattle boats.

Some of the tech charters that I dive with ask CCR divers what their PO2 is before they let them jump. You would be surprised how often they pick up an accident waiting to happen. The DMs are in a tough positions. They don't know us, they have to deal with hundreds of random divers every year with varying degrees of experience and training. And if a diver has a problem, it's going to be a big problem for them as well. I can understand the inclination to do a safety check. There just must be a better approach than the current one....

 

[The Chairman]

I always assumed that DM valve fiddling was an apocryphal story, like being asked to show your paper logbook.

No, I've learned to keep them in front of me at all times and away from my valve. They've turned it off twice. Twice. I don't like the idea of three strikes and I'm out. In the Keys you have so, so many once a year divers, that you have to recheck them. Some boats take the approach that if the gear looks technical at all, they leave it alone, but if they don't know you, they're gonna check. The survivors don't care that their dead loved one should have turned it on> they'll sue anyone they can because they know that their dearly departed was God's gift to diving and never made a mistake.