3 Divers lost on the Spiegel Grove

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Rick Murchison:
Of course it is... but we're talkin' 'bout wrecks here, not caves. There may be some special circumstance - I reckon you could scooter in the O-boat hangar bay, for example - where thirds needs modification, but it's pretty rare. (a third of your penetration gas... that's a third of what you have after reserving your lost-gas deco gas etc).
Rick

Actually, I would be *more* conservative in a wreck than a cave because In a cave (certainly at cave1 level where we dont really dive sinks) you have flow helping you out of the cave.

Also, a wreck is probably more likely to have scope for entanglements etc. so I would allow more gas to take that into account.

also, 1/3's is the absolute *least* conservative you need -- it assumes no one panics too much, your breathing rate doesn't increase too much, that you dont spend too much time getting sorted when you donate a reg, and that you can exit at the same speed you entered.
 
Dash Riprock:
Im pretty sure he is saying that if he cant see directly out to open water, he runs a line.

which still isn't right. *always* run a line from open water, always always. Never underestimate what panic/stress can do to you on a hard exit from a cave. even if open water is only 3 feet away, always run the line.
 
AXL72:
I know the depth is within HeO2. The sat was a means to say, use a chamber and avoid any deco stops and allowing near unlimited bottom time.

You are right, probably overkill at these depths.

A commercial dive boat spread is fairly expensive. Perhaps I overestimate. Don't forget to factor in mobilization and demobilization costs, in addition to the day rate for the spread.

you are more than correct on the logistics issue. i am also in wholehearted agreement with your surface-supported concept; way to plan!
 
Regarding the issue of running a line into a cavern vs. not, one thing to keep in mind is that a cavern can get silted out just as easily as a cave or wreck. What is a cavern with good visibility will be a cave with poor visibility.

Always run a line.
 
Forgive me for being "naive", but technically, what is the difference between a cavern and a cave? Is it shape, size, or something else?
 
actually, it's just an artificial designation

the part of a cave that is within sight of daylight (the daylight zone), is no deeper than 130 feet, and no further back from the surface than 200 feet is generally designated as the cavern zone

(there are other definitions)

basically, the cavern is the transition area from open water to cave. it is an overhead environment, but it's not yet a "tunnel"
 
BryceM:
I just found this article on keysnews.com

http://keysnews.com/288468279172645.bsp.htm

Three divers perish on Spiegel Grove
BY STEVE GIBBS
Free Press Staff
KEY LARGO — Local divers successfully extracted the bodies of two dive victims off the Spiegel Grove wreck Saturday under difficult and dangerous conditions.

On Friday, three New Jersey divers died while exploring the deepest part of the 510-foot former Navy ship sunk as an artificial reef in 2002. The wreck is about five nautical miles off Key Largo at 135 feet deep on the bottom.

The incident was the worst single-day loss in Keys scuba diving history.

"I do not know of three people ever dying on one boat at one time," said Capt. Spencer Slate, owner of Atlantis Dive Shop and a 29-year Keys diver.

The body of one diver was recovered Friday, but two others were left overnight deep in the bowels of the ship, in an off-limits area, according to Key Largo Fire-Rescue Chief Sergio Garcia.

"Before the ship was scuttled, hundreds of holes were cut into the ship to allow divers to escape in case of an emergency," Garcia told the Free Press. "This one area had been chained off as an unexplorable area."

Recovery divers Jason Nunn and Steve Campbell found the bodies based on information gleaned from Howard Spialter, 52, a Westfield, N.J., diver who had entered the shipwreck with the others, but ascended when he ran low on air in his dive tanks. He said he tried to tell his companions which way to go.

"He went one way and they went the other," said Monroe County Sheriff's Detective Mark Coleman.

Spialter, the lone survivor, told the detective he grabbed the hand of one of the others, in an attempt to get him to follow.

All were certified technical divers.

The three who died were Kevin Coughlin, 51, of Chatham Borough, whose body was recovered Friday by two divers from Gainesville, Ga.; Scott Stanley (no age given) and Jonathan Walsweer, 38, both of Westfield.

"At 10:10 a.m. [Saturday] two tech divers penetrated the hatch and went down 45 feet into a pump room. That's the height of a four-and-a-half story building," Garcia said of the recovery effort.

"They went along a narrow catwalk where valves stick out and could snag a diver. Even the most trained professional is taking a risk here. Those protrusions can be hang-ups.

"Then they proceeded along a narrow tunnel that goes 75 feet horizontally from one side of the ship to the other. That's where the victims were located," Garcia said.

Due to murky conditions from stirred-up silt, the recovery divers had to feel their way to the bodies.

"Once they found the victims, they used a tag line tied to the first victim and unrolled it as they left the chamber. The plan was to move the victims, one at a time, back towards the opening of the 45-foot vertical shaft. When the first victim was in place, he was raised to the deck of the ship, which is 90 feet below the surface," Garcia said.

Once on the deck, Monroe County sheriff's divers put the victim in a body bag before raising him to an awaiting boat. The first recovery took just under two hours; the second body was brought to the surface in the same manner, but about 15 minutes faster.

"One body was brought to the surface just before noon and the second just before 4 p.m.," sheriff's spokeswoman Becky Herrin said.

The bodies were transported to Key West where the Monroe County Medical Examiner's Office performed autopsies to confirm the deaths were due to saltwater drowning, Herrin said.

Seas were reported at 8 feet on both days, and a current below made the recovery more dangerous. The group had dived the artificial reef the day before, according to the Sheriff's Office.

Coughlin, who was recovered from the wreck Friday, was found unconscious by two open-water dive instructors, who were diving from an Atlantis Dive Shop boat.

"We were at the beginning of our dive doing a swim-through on the middle level on the port side when we spotted three stage tanks and a line that went into the next room," Stephen Collins told the Free Press. "We swam into that room and found a diver sitting at an opening next to a window. As we approached him, we saw that he did not have his regulator in his mouth."

Stage tanks are placed along the interior of the wreck to provide emergency air for divers.

"My dive buddy, Joe Kellogg, and I worked as a team and brought him through the port and to the surface."

Coughlin was later pronounced dead at Mariners Hospital.

The Spiegel Grove has been a boon both to the diving community — more than 200,000 dives have been made on the wreck — and to an over-dived coral reef just offshore.

Six divers have perished while diving the Spiegel Grove, according to the Associated Press.

The recovery was a coordinated effort by several agencies, including the Key Largo Fire-Rescue Department, the Sheriff's Office, the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, the Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission and volunteers from local dive shops.

The victims were diving off the Scuba-Do, a local charter dive boat owned by Capt. Mark Cianciulli. He has not returned messages left by the Free Press.

The Sheriff's Office is investigating the deaths.

sgibbs@keysnews.com
 
we have a hole like that and now its all ruptured and jagged as of about two weeks ago....

somebody will swim by and get raked

wow, some article about the recovery.
 
Missdirected:
Three divers perish on Spiegel Grove
BY STEVE GIBBS
Free Press Staff
KEY LARGO — Local divers successfully extracted the bodies of two dive victims off the Spiegel Grove wreck Saturday under difficult and dangerous conditions.

On Friday, three New Jersey divers died while exploring the deepest part of the 510-foot former Navy ship sunk as an artificial reef in 2002. The wreck is about five nautical miles off Key Largo at 135 feet deep on the bottom.

The incident was the worst single-day loss in Keys scuba diving history.

"I do not know of three people ever dying on one boat at one time," said Capt. Spencer Slate, owner of Atlantis Dive Shop and a 29-year Keys diver.

The body of one diver was recovered Friday, but two others were left overnight deep in the bowels of the ship, in an off-limits area, according to Key Largo Fire-Rescue Chief Sergio Garcia.

"Before the ship was scuttled, hundreds of holes were cut into the ship to allow divers to escape in case of an emergency," Garcia told the Free Press. "This one area had been chained off as an unexplorable area."

Recovery divers Jason Nunn and Steve Campbell found the bodies based on information gleaned from Howard Spialter, 52, a Westfield, N.J., diver who had entered the shipwreck with the others, but ascended when he ran low on air in his dive tanks. He said he tried to tell his companions which way to go.

"He went one way and they went the other," said Monroe County Sheriff's Detective Mark Coleman.

Spialter, the lone survivor, told the detective he grabbed the hand of one of the others, in an attempt to get him to follow.

All were certified technical divers.

The three who died were Kevin Coughlin, 51, of Chatham Borough, whose body was recovered Friday by two divers from Gainesville, Ga.; Scott Stanley (no age given) and Jonathan Walsweer, 38, both of Westfield.

"At 10:10 a.m. [Saturday] two tech divers penetrated the hatch and went down 45 feet into a pump room. That's the height of a four-and-a-half story building," Garcia said of the recovery effort.

"They went along a narrow catwalk where valves stick out and could snag a diver. Even the most trained professional is taking a risk here. Those protrusions can be hang-ups.

"Then they proceeded along a narrow tunnel that goes 75 feet horizontally from one side of the ship to the other. That's where the victims were located," Garcia said.

Due to murky conditions from stirred-up silt, the recovery divers had to feel their way to the bodies.

"Once they found the victims, they used a tag line tied to the first victim and unrolled it as they left the chamber. The plan was to move the victims, one at a time, back towards the opening of the 45-foot vertical shaft. When the first victim was in place, he was raised to the deck of the ship, which is 90 feet below the surface," Garcia said.

Once on the deck, Monroe County sheriff's divers put the victim in a body bag before raising him to an awaiting boat. The first recovery took just under two hours; the second body was brought to the surface in the same manner, but about 15 minutes faster.

"One body was brought to the surface just before noon and the second just before 4 p.m.," sheriff's spokeswoman Becky Herrin said.

The bodies were transported to Key West where the Monroe County Medical Examiner's Office performed autopsies to confirm the deaths were due to saltwater drowning, Herrin said.

Seas were reported at 8 feet on both days, and a current below made the recovery more dangerous. The group had dived the artificial reef the day before, according to the Sheriff's Office.

Coughlin, who was recovered from the wreck Friday, was found unconscious by two open-water dive instructors, who were diving from an Atlantis Dive Shop boat.

"We were at the beginning of our dive doing a swim-through on the middle level on the port side when we spotted three stage tanks and a line that went into the next room," Stephen Collins told the Free Press. "We swam into that room and found a diver sitting at an opening next to a window. As we approached him, we saw that he did not have his regulator in his mouth."

Stage tanks are placed along the interior of the wreck to provide emergency air for divers.

"My dive buddy, Joe Kellogg, and I worked as a team and brought him through the port and to the surface."

Coughlin was later pronounced dead at Mariners Hospital.

The Spiegel Grove has been a boon both to the diving community — more than 200,000 dives have been made on the wreck — and to an over-dived coral reef just offshore.

Six divers have perished while diving the Spiegel Grove, according to the Associated Press.

The recovery was a coordinated effort by several agencies, including the Key Largo Fire-Rescue Department, the Sheriff's Office, the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, the Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission and volunteers from local dive shops.

The victims were diving off the Scuba-Do, a local charter dive boat owned by Capt. Mark Cianciulli. He has not returned messages left by the Free Press.

The Sheriff's Office is investigating the deaths.

sgibbs@keysnews.com
8 foot seas? not so bad of a day at over 100'
 

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