(5/01/05) Diver missing in Florida

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pilot fish:
This fellow has a total of 3 posts, ahem , and is this envolved in this thread? He's so tired of hearing me talk. rrrrrrrrright :eyebrow:

Might just be cause I don't want to let my mouth overload my butt with some stupid statement and come across like a complete a.$.$. like some other folks do.
 
The Kraken:
What on God's green earth does the date that a person joined the ScubaBoard have to do with anything?

A feeble defense, at best . . . not unlike, "I know you are, but what am I?" A bit sophmoric, don't you think?

If J. Ceausteau had made the comment and had joined the ScubaBoard only today, would that negate his experience?

Oh, come on Snapping Turtle, I mean Kraken. You are sooooooooooooooo obvious :eyebrow: :crafty: :11ztongue
 
Snapping Turtle:
Might just be cause I don't want to let my mouth overload my butt with some stupid statement and come across like a complete a.$.$. like some other folks do.

Oh, come on Kraken, I mean Snapping Turtle. You are sooooooooooooooooooooo obvious. :eyebrow: :crafty: :11ztongue
 
Dear Pilot Fish,

I joined Scuba Board when I found out about this link. I was not on the boat but a heck of lot more knowledgeable of the situation than you are.

Oh by the way...my recollection was correct. There have only been two fatalities on the Spiegle Grove over three years and over 50,000 dives.
 
pilot fish:
I'm saying it needs to be looked at, studied, and a plan in place for that contingentcy, especailly at a site like the Grove. If a Dive Op cannot extend MINIMUM care to the divers on the boat they should not be taking divers to that site.
bold added

Especially at a site like the grove? How do you figure?
The SG is an ADVANCED site. If you want to successfully dive it, you had better be an ADVANCED diver - not only holding an advanced/deep certification from any agency, but actually having advanced skills and relevant (deep, swift current, etc.) vast experience. If not, then this dive is beyond your training, skills, and experience, and you should not do it. Like someone else has said, if you require assistance beyond what you and your buddy can provide to yourselves and each other, you should not be on this dive.

Can you imagine if there were rescue divers waiting nearby the Grove? It could give courage to all kinds of divers who are not ready to dive her. Why do you think some places with cave diving like Ginny Springs do not allow non-cavern/cave-certified divers to use lights in their system? It helps to keep unqualified divers out of trouble by not giving them a false sense of security. "I can see in there = I'll be ok".

There are many wrecks in the Great Lakes here in Canada that have a similar reputation to the SG - many are tech dives, but one that is a little more accessible is the Arabia. The Arabia appears to take lives most years and is very challenging (deep (115 F), cold (38 F), current, low to mediocre vis). Two dive shops that go to this site are extremely cautious about checking c-cards, going through your log books, and watching your other dives before agreeing to let you do this one. Two years ago, they must have spent 15 minutes reading my entire log book before they said that I could do it. I finally did it last summer, and my buddy and I followed every recommendation given to us. We had a redundant air supply and planned the dive and dove the plan meticulously. The dive went off beautifully, but we were prepared no matter what - and accepted the risk. It never occurred to me to think of the captain as a safety net. I can assure you that around here, if you have been cleared to do a dive, you are on your own. I don't know of any guided tours around here.

Are the SG dive charters cautious about who they allow to dive the Grove?
 
Tom Winters:
String - you guys do recreational dive ops over there differently than over here. Here USCG licensing entails passing requirements for a given tonnage and not necesaarily a specific usage like diving, fishing, crabbing, towing. A lot of this stems from the lobbying by commercial fishing interests not to have to adhere to a lot of OSHA regulations. Any legislation that gets passed for safety purposes is usually the result of a nasty accident or loss of life.
The insurance companies that underwrite dive boats do not mandate much more specific requirements than the Coast Coast requires on a given vessel's Certificate of Inspection (COI). Vessels of any size taking 6 or fewer passengers are exempt from most of the COI strictures since they are considered uninspected vessels.
Dive boats that have aggressive rescue plans and what-ifs covered are doing this for themselves and not in response to any outside agency response. Everyone defers to the Coast Guard, and I have to tell you, meeting the Coast Guard requirements on a an inspected vessel while you're trying to keep a business afloat can be a little tough sometimes.
The idea is that if a given vessel meets Coast Guard requirements for its intended purpose of operation, then it can deal with any emergency that comes up.
In the Navy, drills are done all the time to maintain readiness. When I drove civilian dive boats, I used to have my customers help start things out by simulating being bent or having a heart attack. This met our USCG crew training requirements and kept my guys on their toes.
It's been a few years since I last drove professionally. Since then, the Coast Guard instituted new STCW (Standards of Training, Certification, & Watchkeeping) requirements, but as far as I know, none of these are tailored directly at dive boats which are a miniscule part at best of the American commercial vessel industry.


Dive captains aboard six pac vessels are required to have dive master ratings. This is not because of Coast Guard regulations, but to meet insurance requirements. Six pac dive vessels also need to carry certain emergency equipment, some mandated by the Coast Guard, some the insurance carrier.

To earn a Capt. lic. one must pass a Coast Guard exam which includes deck safety and use of safety equipment.
 
baitedstorm:
I'm with you!!!!!

So.... how's the weather in your neck of the coral?

Regs are being serviced but Mike promised em by Saturday. Gonna pick up my transplate (venture) hopefully Sunday. Gonna have Capt Lynn pop some prescriptions in my Bigeyes....

After that the entire coast is my oyster! :wink:
 
Tell you all what:

If you haven't dived in the Keys, and you haven't dived on several different ops in the Keys, then why don't you all:

1. Come on down and dive the Grove
2. Observe the operations in action

so you all can:

1. Make more informed comments about this divesite
2. Make more informed comments about the dive ops

and most of all:

Stop wasting bandwidth on a dead topic that is not going anywhere but down since every other post is a rehash of an earlier one.

I like a good debate and all, but not at the expense of hard working people and their customers.

If any of you were actually there, then I'll chime out, but if not, then maybe we should all chime out for now, or at least until more ACCURATE information is divulged.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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