90 FSW - During the checkout dives

[robbcayman]

This bothers me. There is a local independant instructor, for PDIC. Been teaching people in this area for years.

2 guys I work with just got certified through him. They told me that they went to 90 FSW during their checkouts. My next door neighbor got certified by this guy a few years back. When I mentioned this to him, he said they did the same thing then.

I know NAUI & PADI, & prolly other orgs, limit instructors to taking students to a max of 60 FSW. I dunno what the PDIC std is, I just think that is too deep to be taking people that soon, without having a bit more real world diving under their belts.

I guess he hasn't had any serious problems doing so yet, seeing as he hasn't been sued out of existance. I just think it's too deep, too fast, IMO.

Anyone else heard of other instructors doing something like this?

This bothers me as well. I don't think it's smart to take new divers to those depths. What happens if one of the new divers floods his mask and shoots to the top like a rocket from 90ft :06:

This is not a good idea and you should turn him in on violation asap!!!


As for the Gary guy who keeps suggesting everyone to use the search function needs to get a life. I've seen you (Gary) do this to several people, especially new people, this is really bad manners. We will bring up the same stuff countless times. Not only that but "NEW" people don't normally know what to search for, so these "old" subjects are new to them which teach them new things.

 

[Wayward Son]

costi, it isn't about me. I've been diving for over 30 years. I'm simply discussing something that has recently come to my attention where I live.

Some evidently see nothing to be concerned about. For me, if my daughter decides to get certified, I will not be putting her in this guys class. I'll take her to my LDS, an hour away, for a NAUI class.

 

[JacobK]

This bothers me. There is a local independant instructor, for PDIC. Been teaching people in this area for years.

2 guys I work with just got certified through him. They told me that they went to 90 FSW during their checkouts. My next door neighbor got certified by this guy a few years back. When I mentioned this to him, he said they did the same thing then.

I know NAUI & PADI, & prolly other orgs, limit instructors to taking students to a max of 60 FSW. I dunno what the PDIC std is, I just think that is too deep to be taking people that soon, without having a bit more real world diving under their belts.

I guess he hasn't had any serious problems doing so yet, seeing as he hasn't been sued out of existance. I just think it's too deep, too fast, IMO.

Anyone else heard of other instructors doing something like this?

My OW check out dive was at 35 feet off catalina. The head instructor told the other instructors and dive masters no more than forty feet. NAUI.

Jacob

 

[TwoBitTxn]

If this were PADI all of the PADI bashers would be out doing what they do...

www.pdic-intl.com

Last I tried it the link was down. Get your friend to look up an address and send a letter. IMHO, this guy is dangerous.

TwoBit

 

[shooter226]

The water conditions play a bigger part of the equation than the depth. There is a big difference diving in limited vis, cold water and crystal clear warm water. 90 feet in the Caymans is not that big a deal. 60 feet in New Jersey is.

How experienced was the instructor? How were the diver’s water skills? Were they one on one or in a group?

 

[cuddlefish]

Some students may do just fine at deeper depths early on and some may not. However, if an instructor follows each training standard set forth by the RSTC and their training organization (PADI, etc), their insurance company and their agency will back them up in the event of a lawsuit. If, for example, a PADI instructor takes an O/W student on a dive deeper than 40 (first two dives) or 60 (last two dives), then they will not be covered or backed up if something happens. So I assume that if an instructor is willing to break the standards, they are not only risking the safety of their students, but from a legal standpoint they are not smart, professional or prudent. Why on earth someone would willingly give up their liability protection for no good reason is beyond me.

 

[jonnythan]

Wayward Son: Long story short, I'd report it to PADI. It's a standards violation, plain and simple, black and white. Instructors violating agency standards, especially in a way that comprimises safety, NEEDS to be brought to the agency's attention.

 

[PAdiver93]

This bothers me. There is a local independant instructor, for PDIC. Been teaching people in this area for years.

2 guys I work with just got certified through him. They told me that they went to 90 FSW during their checkouts. My next door neighbor got certified by this guy a few years back. When I mentioned this to him, he said they did the same thing then.

I know NAUI & PADI, & prolly other orgs, limit instructors to taking students to a max of 60 FSW. I dunno what the PDIC std is, I just think that is too deep to be taking people that soon, without having a bit more real world diving under their belts.

I guess he hasn't had any serious problems doing so yet, seeing as he hasn't been sued out of existance. I just think it's too deep, too fast, IMO.

Anyone else heard of other instructors doing something like this?

I know a guy who was getting certified through on of the resort "classes"... On his second dive his instructor took him down (and other students) to about 80... Long story short, the guy panicked - shot up - 4 weeks in ICU (and he was airlifted - actually transported to the States from the resort country)... He is OK now - obviously not even thinking about diving.... He is suing the resort and the cert agency...

 

[jonnythan]

I know a guy who was getting certified through on of the resort "classes"... On his second dive his instructor took him down (and other students) to about 80... Long story short, the guy panicked - shot up - 4 weeks in ICU (and he was airlifted - actually transported to the States from the resort country)... He is OK now - obviously not even thinking about diving.... He is suing the resort and the cert agency...

Good move.

Hey Wayward Son, how would you feel if you heard this story about this particular instructor in about a year's time and you had done nothing whatsoever?

 

[Scuba]

I think there's a couple issues here. First, I have no problem with an instructor pushing the bounds of a student's experience. That's how you learn, and how you become more confident. But that assumes a situation where the student is led by the instructor as a training exercise, NOT where the student is off with a non-instructor buddy doing the same dive.

But having an instructor take you on a trip to 90ft during an OW class is not a certification, merely a good experience to stretch the student's limits a bit and build some confidence.

I just like to point this out as it seems to be a common thread running through this thread.

Stretch what limits? Donning SCUBA gear is stretching the limits for all, so is being ten feet underwater for many.

It's one thing to stretch our limits beyond our comfort zone, but how much, if anything, is really gained when there is no pre-existing comfort zone or underwater limit? Does goint to 100 or 200 really help you any more than going to 30 as a starting reference point? Is this a case of greater risk exposure with no additional gain, marginal gain, significant gain? Is it worth it. Has the student been informed of the greater risk and given a choice of a shallower dive?

One thing that I'l say, unless there is objective evidence to warrant the greater risk exposure then it's nothing more than a risk increase for its own sake.