A Cert Card for everything, including how to tie your shoe...

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I like to think of it like a karma type thing, if you are good and work hard at diving, and making diving enjoyable for others, even at your own expense (money, gear, etc.), that kindness will be returned to you (lots of dive buddies who want to dive lots, and free fills :D).

Oh, one more thing... MY WIFE JUST BROUGHT ME FROSTED MINI WHEATS! I WIN AT LIFE!

That is the best comment i have heard today. I thought that I had it good when I got have a 6 ice cold beer in my 2 quart mug.
 
Lovely thoughts, sunshine, but scuba is fighting the same battle as many other low-participant sports that are expensive to enter and require skills maintenance: It's darned hard to attract and keep fresh, new, young blood. Without it, the sport atropies...

As much as we dislike it, it takes these salomi-sliced courses to attract the youngsters. Gen-X and the Millenium Generation just don't have the self-discipline nor patience to sit through (a) longer class(es).

Totally Agree with you Jax, I still think that its sad, and I wish there were more people willing to donate their time to teaching those with the desire to learn but not the means to afford the education. I mean there's got to be some sort of happy medium doesn't their?

I also think that there should be more emphasis on the idea of education having consequences, giving c-cards to people because they paid their money don't seem right to me either.

again, diatribe ended.
 
Oh, one more thing...
MY WIFE JUST BROUGHT ME FROSTED MINI WHEATS! I WIN AT LIFE!

Then, shouldn't she have brought you "Life" cereal instead? :mooner:
 
So, who offers a "Sidemount" cert? :hm:

Give it a year or two to catch on more, then you will see the card. Along with every level of cave with "side mount authorized" cards.
 
Things are different today, training is not as complete in all areas as it once was, but that does not mean that an instructor should be turning loose divers that would not be safe to dive in a recreational inviorment.
I think giving anyone a certification card just because they payed for it is a lot like giving someone a pilots license just because they payed for it ... someone could die from it and maybe take others with them.


BTW, there is more to a dry suit besides just learning the operation of the valves and maintaining trim & buoyancy ... a good class (or mentor) will put you under stress, provide good training on the unique and dangerous failure modes that they have, and the training to avoid or overcome them
 
BTW, there is more to a dry suit besides just learning the operation of the valves and maintaining trim & buoyancy ... a good class (or mentor) will put you under stress, provide good training on the unique and dangerous failure modes that they have, and the training to avoid or overcome them

IMO, this is exactly what training at its best is - distilled experience served in a structured way. A diver might or might not learn all the same things during a say, 100 dives, depending on luck, but a well put together class will give a kickstart to the process. Training and experience should not be mutually exclusive.

To make the value proposition of diver training better for the whole dive community (and the industry too) the training should be more demanding, the bar in regards of basic skills (buoyancy, ability to stay still in water) much higher, and the experience requirements for entering advanced courses way higher, especially for instructor training. With the current supply/demand situation the drive to lower prices, standards and entry requirements for courses will only lead to crappier and crappier divers being certified, which in turn will put the pressure on advanced courses... It will be interesting to see how the few efforts to overcome this with a longer, more comprehensive OW classes will fare, given that the price will also be higher.

//LN
 
Superlyte27; ... I get the free market system. I guess that if a McDonald's hamburger can shrink to the size of a postage stamp:
The guys that started PADI "got" the free market system. They saw that scuba training was not meeting the market needs, and they created a new training system that met those needs. Their new business model worked spectacularly well in making scuba accessable, and most divers today are divers because of the new training model that PADI invented.

PADI and the other agencies continue to change and innovate as technologies and markets change. That is a good thing. Business must continue to experiment with new products and new ideas. As with all businesses, they must evolve or die. And it is the consumer who will decide what is wanted and needed and affordable.

Like any industry leader, PADI gets its share of criticism. Your idea that PADI customers are not getting good value for their training dollar is easy to test: Just start your own training agency and offer a better deal.
 
So why are we bustin' on PADI again? Virtually every agency I've been exposed to offers a range of specialty programs ... some with cards, some not ... and for the record, I own about three dozen different C-cards from a half-dozen different agencies (none of them are PADI cards), have taken workshops in things like drysuit diving, equipment maintenance, doubles diving, and scooters that didn't come with C-cards, and teach a number of specialty classes myself.

The value someone gets from a program ... whether it's a workshop that doesn't involve a certification or something that comes with a card upon completion ... will depend on a number of things ... the learning style of the student, the ability of the instructor to make the class effective, and how applicable the subject is to the conditions the student will be applying what they learned. I view some specialty classes as a complete waste of time ... but that's as applied to me. I view others as extremely valuable ... but again that's as applied to me.

Someone who claims that they learned everything they needed to know about diving in one or two classes is either living in the past, or is someone who learns best by experimenting, or is simply someone who likes to take chances. Certainly you can learn a lot of things by diving. You can also get yourself into a great deal of trouble through ignorance. And even if you don't get yourself in trouble, learning on your own ... or even through a mentor, unless you get lucky and choose one who's very good at mentoring ... can take a great deal more time and effort than taking a class from someone who can show you specific techniques, and explain to you why those techniques work better than alternatives.

I dive a lot ... and I've learned a lot just by going diving. But the downside is I picked up a lot of bad habits along the way ... and after a time those bad habits inhibited my ability to progress, and I had to unlearn them. Unlearning bad habits takes a lot more effort than learning how to do something correctly in the first place ... I still find myself falling back on some of that old, bad "muscle memory" from time to time. And so I try to teach my students how to avoid those pitfalls. Perhaps that's the best argument for specialty classes ... you get to focus on a specific set of skills and learn them correctly the first time.

The cards, for the most part, are irrelevent ... most of mine got tossed in a drawer and never looked at again. Take a specialty class because it offers some aspect of learning skills that you need in order to increase your knowledge and ability. Find an instructor who offers real value, and knows how to challenge you to take your diving skills to a higher level. If you ever come out of a class feeling like you didn't learn anything, you chose the wrong instructor and should shop around before taking the next class.

And don't worry about what other people did, or what other people might think ... they're not you. Assess your own goals. If a specialty class helps you achieve them, take it. If you think you'd be just as well off getting out on a dive and learning by doing, then do that. What someone else thinks about it is irrelevent ... and usually just boils down to them wanting to rationalize their own choices by influencing yours.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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