A Concerned Diver.

[fnfalman]

I'd say that if I were to think other people being unsafe, I'd approach and ask if that person would mind some observations. If that person doesn't mind my observations, then I'd give it to him or her without copping a holier-than-thou attitude. If that person doesn't want my advise, then that person can do whatever that person wants, including getting killed, and I will make damn sure that I won't be putting my life in danger trying to rescue that person. God helps those who help themselves. I'm not God, so I definitely will not jeopardize my life to help those who don't help themselves.

As far as gear configuration goes, if it ain't my gear, I'd keep my mouth shut. If people were to ask me about my gear configuration and why I rig mine up the way it is then I'll explain to them my reasoning. If others were to lecture to me about my gear configuration without solicitation? I'll tell them to take a flying leap at the moon and leave me and mine be.

Just remember that you don't have a badge that identifies you as a PADI Police or DIR SWAT. Dive your dive. Find a buddy that dives your dive and be content.

 

[luckydays]

I group dive most Thursday's. There have been 3 of us, there have been 10 of us on a dive before. I always pick one diver to be my buddy. Its almost always Rob because we get along well, have similar goals when diving (having fun) and have comparable air consumption rates. And we are friends. I would dive with anyone in the group though. Even when we get new people to join us for the day we always pair up even if we stay as a group.

Here is what I would suggest, buy your own dive flag and ask someone whom you do like to dive with to be your buddy and hang with the group if you and your buddy want to OR tell the group that they need to change their diving style or you won't dive with them again.

Or you could just dive with them and suck it up.

Hopefully you will find someone who wants to dive with you as much as you want to dive with them.

 

[TSandM]

If you are interested in GUE/DIR diving, I'd highly suggest getting into it sooner rather than "many dives later". For one thing, you won't build diving habits that you will have to work hard to change. For another thing, getting involved in that kind of diving may be an excellent source for you of buddies you find enjoyable.

 

[StreetDoctor]

Why not talk to them instead of hide behind a computer persona? Why is it that everyone is so chicken **** nowadays to just talk to someone? Text messaging and the internet are ruining society... thanks Al Gore! LOL

 

[DwayneJ]

I realize that computers are much more accurate in determining NDL, maybe I just don't like the thought of relying so much on one piece of gear. Then again, if a computer dies, I'm sure as hell aborting the dive.

Other single points of failure - Tank, Tank Valve, 1st Stage, Pressure Gauge, 2 LP and 1 Hp hose, Either Reg Free Flowing, BC, BC Inflator Hose, Mask, Either Fin, Tables, Bottom Timer...

A computer provides a much more accurate track of your dive and NDL. Many computers provide the ability for you to set a level of conservatism although you ideally need to dive with a buddy who shares your level of conservatism.

Once you start diving sites which do not have a square dive profile, a computer is a requirement. For example - start at 65' then bottom climbs to 45' before finishing at 60'.

Yes, your computer craps out, you abort the dive. The dives I have aborted have been due to regulator issues with my buddy.

Maybe I do. I would like to get into dir/gue, however in many years and many more dives later.

Learning about DIR/GUE or whatever discipline you choose now will likely save you money on gear purchases. Purchase the right gear now which will last a lifetime.

I agree with you, most people probably don't look at tables. But scuba diving is a sport very heavily based in the science realm. Gas laws and bubble theory, mostly.

You got some great advice from some very knowledgeable individuals but you still use "But" with regards to tables/computers. As above, tables do not accurately track multilevel dives. Buy a computer.

Luckily, that's the one thing the people in our group can do, determining PSI for each stage of the dive, PSI to use on bottom, turn around, and ascent/emergency.

Technically you are diving to your buddy's or groups weakest link. As your group develops skills and purchase computers, the weakest link will not be asked to participate.

- In small or large groups, agree on who your dive buddy is. The worst group to be in is an odd number group.
- The only persons gear you need to be worried about is your own.
- You and you buddy need to agree on out of gas primary/octo procedure.
- Finding a dive buddy can be a difficult and time consuming process.

 

[Crush]

- In small or large groups, agree on who your dive buddy is. The worst group to be in is an odd number group.
- The only persons gear you need to be worried about is your own.
- You and you buddy need to agree on out of gas primary/octo procedure.
- Finding a dive buddy can be a difficult and time consuming process.

I wish I could find the THANKS! button...

 

[Bonairetrip]

It seems to me like the OP has at least three different issues.

Dive Buddies In General
In a randomly selected group of a dozen divers, it is likely that there is at least one I won't want to dive with. It is likely that some of those divers will have goals for a particular dive that are incompatible with yours. The answer is easy in both cases: don't dive with them.

Even in the big group, you could still do the scheduling and bulk rental and still have buddy pair do the diving. Find a buddy that works for you.

Equipment Concerns
I am no fan of Air 2s. But I don't consider a diver with one to be unsafe. Being four inches from your buddy in an OOA is perhaps not ideal but it is feasible. I learned in the pre-computer era (the Bend-o-Matic may have been released but that would be it) and actually enjoy table work. Yet I dive with a computer.

The whys have been discussed at length.

Exceeding Your Role
Diving is a fun activity that does require attention to safety. While I will argue in favor of one gear configuration over another, there is no single gear configuration that is safe while all others are suspect. That isn't to say there are no unsafe configurations because there are. These just are not it.

The key is to figure out how to manage your risks in a way that are comfortable to you without imposing your views on others.

I realize that computers are much more accurate in determining NDL, maybe I just don't like the thought of relying so much on one piece of gear. Then again, if a computer dies, I'm sure as hell aborting the dive.

IMHO, I think the "one piece of gear" argument makes no sense. First, this is fairly similar to arguments that were made when SPGs and depth gauges were introduced. They could fail. They provide a false sense of security. They are unneeded, etc. Second, under your approach you are also relying on a single (ok, two) pieces of gear -- a depth guage and a bottom timer. Third, for most divers, you could argue that the computer is likely to be more accurate in that it is harder to make a mistake like carrying the wrong pressure group over. Finally, you are free to dive with two identical computers on the same wrist if that is what makes you comfortable.

By all means, understand the dive computer. What it says, what that means and why that says it. I think learning tables is a valuable and important skill. And I think tables or computers are both equally valid ways to plan your dive. I will add this with regard to a computer: many will impose some rigor in terms of monitoring your ascent rate; not a bad thing.

And, yes, a dead dive computer ends the dive. And probably any others for the next 24 hours. That has only happened once to me (and it was my own fault!)

 

[Crush]

While I will argue in favor of one gear configuration over another, there is no single gear configuration that is safe while all others are suspect. That isn't to say there are unsafe configurations because there are. These just are not it.

You have got to read Doing It Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving by Jarrod Jablonski - he will set you straight. A quote from page 21: "the world’s most successful diving system-Doing it Right (DIR)." Clearly one system is superior to all others...

 

[fnfalman]

Learning about DIR/GUE or whatever discipline you choose now will likely save you money on gear purchases. Purchase the right gear now which will last a lifetime.

Agreed. You may find out that you have zero interest in technical diving as well.

You got some great advice from some very knowledgeable individuals but you still use "But" with regards to tables/computers. As above, tables do not accurately track multilevel dives. Buy a computer.

Unless you're a PhD in Physics or some sort of Engineering, the chances of you truly understanding the bubble theory is slim to none and slim had just left town. Most of us laymen may read all into the bubble theories and talk about Haldane's theory versus Buhlmann's theory versus whatever, but none of us have the scientific knowledge to truly understand these theories. Otherwise all of us would be card-carrying PhDs in science or engineering.

I have a Master in Chemical Engineering and reading the Buhlmann's write-up baffled me.

 

[fnfalman]

You have got to read Doing It Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving by Jarrod Jablonski - he will set you straight. A quote from page 21: "the world’s most successful diving system-Doing it Right (DIR)." Clearly one system is superior to all others...

I have the same book on my book shelf.

JJ is an authority on diving, but he isn't THE authority on diving.

Those guys that do all the fancy photography and videography for BBC/Disney that we so much enjoy on IMAX...they ain't DIR, and I challenge somebody to come up and tell them that they don't know nuthin' about no divin' because they ain't got no long hose/short hose.