The tank was permanently marked with "Oxygen" and the 20' MOD sticker. It wasn't mislabeled it was misused. The only thing that should ever been in it was oxygen.
A FB friend posted his brother died today in Ginnie Springs
- Thread starter Jim Lapenta
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The tank was permanently marked with "Oxygen" and the 20' MOD sticker. It wasn't mislabeled it was misused. The only thing that should ever been in it was oxygen.
TONY CHANEY
Contributor
When I worked in Marine Corps aviation we use to tell everyone that at any point, anytime, anywhere no matter the rank anyone can stop the process if he or she feels someting is just not right. From countless of aviation mishaps, I saw time and time again in the after action report where someone made the statement, "something just did not seem right." Yes some egos got involved but it worked and worked well. When I am diving with a new team, group, students etc. I always make it a point to let everyone know that at any time anyone can call the dive. A thumbs up is a thumbs up and everyone aborts the dive. No questions asked underwater. I will not include at any time anyone may stop the dive. It should have happened here.
You hit on a key point. Most divers I know seem to respect this under the water. If a buddy thumbs the dive, no problem. Does not matter how much experience one has, or the other buddy has. It does not matter what the reason is, or whether it is a great dive for the non-thumbing buddy. You end the dive. But a lot have a harder time realizing this applies before one even hits the water. There is a MUCH greater resistance, in what I have seen at least, to thumbing the dive before it even starts, though I know for me that even going back to my OW instruction it was reinforced that one could thumb before they ever even put on their exposure suit. My own dive buddy and I are both comfortable thumbing if either of us does not feel right, and if the other can't dive with another buddy we both sit out. However, I have seen many instances where other divers have or have related stories to me where they were in a bad state before the dive and dove anyway. Sometimes the thumb comes too late, as it did for an accquaintance of mine recently. Sometimes the thumb needs to come in a doctor's office when you are told/realize that your health no longer allows you to dive at all, and that is a VERY hard decision for many divers to make, I am sure. Because of lessons learned by others though (sometimes with tragic ends), my buddy and I have already agreed that if there is anything in our health ever incompatible with diving, that is it. Time to find a new hobby as hard as it would be.
His buddies, if they were uncomfortable, had every right to thumb the dive until either the tank was analyzed or, failing that, altogether. But they didn't, so the question is why? Did they feel satisfied with Carlos' explanation? Did they feel awkward telling what they considered to be an experienced diver they were not going to dive with him? Or telling an experienced diver what to do? Was there a personality issue here where they did not feel right confronting his personality style? Did they see him as the "teacher" and them more as the "proteges" thus were reluctant to override him? Did they feel they would "miss out" on a dive" that MIGHT have just been fine or even been great? Did they worry about the guilt they would feel if something happened and they were not there? Did they think Carlos was going to go anyway, with or without them? We may never have answers to this, but I think these are important things for me to think about when it comes to my own experiences and future experiences.
Carlos, if this was ox tox, would never have likely even had the chance to thumb during the dive as ox tox strikes fast and without much, if any warning. You just start seizing. I am not a cave or tech diver or anything, but I guess that he sort of guaranteed his death (setting aside a miraculous rescue and luck) as soon as he took that tank with him underwater without analyzing/setting MOD. So here, the thumb really had to come ahead of time, and it sounds like in this case it was not going to be coming from him.
So yes, there might not be much to learn here in respect to "analyze your tanks, always!" as we know that lesson already very well but there is something to learn perhaps in respect to what one sets as their comfort level in continuing with a dive with a buddy after they have raised concerns that have not really been answered. In no way am I trying to blame the buddies for the end result. Ultimately, Carlos was responsibile for analyzing & labelling his own tanks and for whatever reason he did not even when the mix was called into question. But, he did put himself at risk to disastrous end, and his buddies at risk as well who not only may need his supply but also need him to be their buddy AND who put themselves at risk to help him. Carlos might have dived anyway if one or both of his buddies thumbed the dive before they ever got in the water, and sadly we will never know what the outcome might have been if that had happened, but I don't think the lesson to take from this is "nothing new to learn here" either.
I kind of hesitated to write this because I am positive the buddies feel bad enough as is and are already what-ifing this until kingdom come. I only want this to be a chance to learn for others, not to blame the buddies. I do think they erred in some ways, and in hindsight this is more apparent than it might have been at the time, but I certainly do not hold them responsible here and I imagine they did the best they could to save their buddy when he started having issues even if they knew success might be against all odds.
imasinker
Contributor
I haven't been here in years nor updated my profile..I am merely here to say a few words and it's one of the hardest things that I've ever had to write.
I never thought I would see the day come where I would see my best friends death being discussed on a forum. I Have known Carlos almost 4 years since the day we met at a meet n greet. I was just starting off into tech as he was, and so began an incredible friendship just as brothers. Carlos felt that all who wanted to learn should feel free and confident to do so. He believed that everyone should feel confident to say "teach me"..."I want to learn". We dove, talked and later along with a few other people started GLTD, Great Lakes Technical Divers. Carlos was a rock solid diver who I trusted with my life. He was and still is respected for being who he was as a person and diver. The time came when Carlos went the Cave direction, where as I went CCR. Carlos was also an advocate for underwater preservation. He began travelling and being involved with groups and foundations donating time and money. He was greatly involved with Jill on her "We Are Water" project. He sought out great instructors, and did his training. We still always found our morning conversations, the whats up and whats going on's in our lives. When I needed a brother to talk to he was always there, not just for me but anyone who needed him. Stand up guy all the way!
He was strong willed and would not think twice to voice his opinion, some would say arrogant or argumentative at times and in the dive community he wasn't alone in that. He stood for what he believed in, and at times wouldn't back down and made it known. It's perhaps a character trait not appreciated by some, but it was his way. He never thought twice to open his home or wallet to anyone in need. Never asking for anything in return. A stern grip handshake or bear hug--no one will forget those! . He was a great diver, well skilled and well trained. This was the Carlos I knew and loved as a brother. Love him or hate him,... he was a GREAT person.
Now with saying that....He made a very careless and stupid mistake. I cant wrap my head around just how senseless this all is. Carlos was regimental with meticulous care and service towards his gear. However he indeed made a seriously bad mistake. He knew far better than to do what he did, and because of that, many of us will be left with the unanswered question "WHY?"--an answer we will never know......
So we can sit here and talk shop about how NOT to do things. Bash the guy, call him an idiot. The damage and the grief out weigh anything anyone can speak out or type. I cant imagine what his family is going through.
The lesson is plain and simple....mark your tanks, analize your gases, when in doubt double check. Question everything or anyone regardless of dive status. There is no I in Team".. Your gases are my gases and vise versa. It your life, my life and our families.
I guess what I am trying to say is, Carlos is a person, a Husband, a father, a son, a brother and friend to many. I will miss his laugh, his spontaneity and his kindness. He was great person.
Please dive safe !
Rob Smith
Ontario Canada.
I never thought I would see the day come where I would see my best friends death being discussed on a forum. I Have known Carlos almost 4 years since the day we met at a meet n greet. I was just starting off into tech as he was, and so began an incredible friendship just as brothers. Carlos felt that all who wanted to learn should feel free and confident to do so. He believed that everyone should feel confident to say "teach me"..."I want to learn". We dove, talked and later along with a few other people started GLTD, Great Lakes Technical Divers. Carlos was a rock solid diver who I trusted with my life. He was and still is respected for being who he was as a person and diver. The time came when Carlos went the Cave direction, where as I went CCR. Carlos was also an advocate for underwater preservation. He began travelling and being involved with groups and foundations donating time and money. He was greatly involved with Jill on her "We Are Water" project. He sought out great instructors, and did his training. We still always found our morning conversations, the whats up and whats going on's in our lives. When I needed a brother to talk to he was always there, not just for me but anyone who needed him. Stand up guy all the way!
He was strong willed and would not think twice to voice his opinion, some would say arrogant or argumentative at times and in the dive community he wasn't alone in that. He stood for what he believed in, and at times wouldn't back down and made it known. It's perhaps a character trait not appreciated by some, but it was his way. He never thought twice to open his home or wallet to anyone in need. Never asking for anything in return. A stern grip handshake or bear hug--no one will forget those! . He was a great diver, well skilled and well trained. This was the Carlos I knew and loved as a brother. Love him or hate him,... he was a GREAT person.
Now with saying that....He made a very careless and stupid mistake. I cant wrap my head around just how senseless this all is. Carlos was regimental with meticulous care and service towards his gear. However he indeed made a seriously bad mistake. He knew far better than to do what he did, and because of that, many of us will be left with the unanswered question "WHY?"--an answer we will never know......
So we can sit here and talk shop about how NOT to do things. Bash the guy, call him an idiot. The damage and the grief out weigh anything anyone can speak out or type. I cant imagine what his family is going through.
The lesson is plain and simple....mark your tanks, analize your gases, when in doubt double check. Question everything or anyone regardless of dive status. There is no I in Team".. Your gases are my gases and vise versa. It your life, my life and our families.
I guess what I am trying to say is, Carlos is a person, a Husband, a father, a son, a brother and friend to many. I will miss his laugh, his spontaneity and his kindness. He was great person.
Please dive safe !
Rob Smith
Ontario Canada.
patpicos
Contributor
Amen.
tanksforthememories
Contributor
As a new diver I would like to thank those of you who took the time to point out some lessons to be learned from the tragic events surrounding Carlos's death. What I have learned is as follows:
1. Always mark the content of your tank at the time of fill.
2. If a tank has a specific use, only use it for that use.
3. Recheck, analyse, your tank at the dive site directly prior to use.
4. Analyse your buddy's tank, it is your safety net. (I had never even considered this)
5. Know the signs of O2 toxicity and how to respond.
6. Humility and confidence can go hand in hand.
If this were the place to offer sincere condolences to Carlos's friends and family I definitely would. I pray that they get some solace that his passing may have saved the lives of divers like me who have gained insight into the dangers that diving contains and ways to reduce them.
1. Always mark the content of your tank at the time of fill.
2. If a tank has a specific use, only use it for that use.
3. Recheck, analyse, your tank at the dive site directly prior to use.
4. Analyse your buddy's tank, it is your safety net. (I had never even considered this)
5. Know the signs of O2 toxicity and how to respond.
6. Humility and confidence can go hand in hand.
If this were the place to offer sincere condolences to Carlos's friends and family I definitely would. I pray that they get some solace that his passing may have saved the lives of divers like me who have gained insight into the dangers that diving contains and ways to reduce them.
MalibuJerry
Contributor
Having had a dive buddy use a mis-labled tank and tox at 85' (it all turned out well) I'm with Steve Lewis on this one. It is your contingency gas, your life, make sure of all gases before a dive. This is way too easy for an experienced diver to mess up.
dumpsterDiver
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I have to wonder as well. If his team reminded him that the bottle was marked oxygen and he used it anyway, it seems no different from putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger, because you "know" it is empty and there is no need to double check. If the bottle was unlabeled, mislabeled, or mixed up while underwater, this sort of error is understandable, but this sounds different to me. Nobody has come up with an answer that makes sense.
IF he did fill an oxygen bottle with straight air, he would have known it. IF he filled his oxygen bottle with air, then maybe there is another identical or similar oxygen bottle in his garage or truck or something that actually IS filled with air. If nobody can locate that 'mis labeled" bottle of oxygen/air, then I have a hard time understanding this accident. His friends MUST have thought about this and would have searched high and low for this bottle .. in order to make some sense of his actions.. yes?
Dr. Lecter
Contributor
My thinking as well, minus the speculation about the alternative being intentionally diving O2...there are easier ways that don't endanger others.
I wonder what kind of tank herd he was contending with at his home fill station. I've always thought it was great that I could afford to buy matching tanks, regs, stage rigging, etc. Parts are interchangable and they look slick. Now I'm thinking that having some visual distinctions beyond just MOD markings -- and limiting the number of deco tanks in my herd -- might not be the worst idea.
imasinker
Contributor
Shouldn't matter what how many you have, each should be dated and labelled with the pressure and appropriate MOD as soon as it's filled.
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