Accident Analysis vs Emotions

[ArcticDiver]

Well,...Maybe recreational SCUBA will never get there.

We will when we demand the same type safety standards as are customary in other industries.

It is fairly common in industrial accidents for accident investigations to result in significant changes in safety protocols. Certainly there are always the rice bowl arguements; no system is perfect. But, at least the fundamental causal data is available to the decsion makers.

Someone always brings up the spectre of government regulation. Well that doesn't have to be. As you said the cave diving segment has made a good start on developing a satisfactory program.

 

[cowjazz]

Lamont,

I'm right there with you on this one. You made some excellent points, and were able to summarize my position on this topic more clearly, concisely and logically than I could ever hope to do myself.

 

[lamont]

I have long argued for the same Incident and Accident Reporting and Analysis for SCUBA that is common in the aviation industry and as mandated for industrial accidents. Until that is in place we are groping in the dark without fully realizing that we are in the dark because our eyes are closed.

Can you think of another hobby/sport that has that kind of accident reporting and analysis agency? Hang gliding? Mountain Climbing? Bungee Jumping? Isn't the possiblity of actually having such an agency for scuba diving basically zero, but its the kind of thing that everyone will nod their head and will say would be good idea?

In the absence of such an agency appearing out of nowhere, what do we do about the accidents which are currently happening?

The answer on this board seems to be to give condolences to the victims and not talk about anything else because its all 'speculation' and sit on our hands and wait for the mythical accident reporting and analysis agency for scuba to magically appear.

 

[sea nmf]

Yes, I've also stopped reading the A&I forum. I used to like it.

First of all, what is wrong with speculation, as long as we discuss it hypothetically? This does have value for us to at least go through the scenario in our minds and possibly avoid the behavior and/or situation in the future.

I agree that calling the victim names and blaming them could be hard on the survivors (friends, family). And deliberately doing that is insensitive.

But using different verbiage to indicate that this may have happened, and, if so, what could have been done differently for a different outcome, seems of value to me.

 

[DandyDon]

Ok, thanks for commenting here. Seems like a common feeling going...

 

[dldiver]

After reading some of the comments, I wanted to suggest that that A&I Forum be somehow split into sections:

1) "Accident Reports" where we would learn about what happened and would be a more appropriate place to leave condolences and offer support.
2) "Accident Discussions" where we would be free to discuss and LEARN from the event(of course with respect to the victims), question the hypothetical and even speculate the what ifs(without name calling and placing hasty blame).

I don't think that would be too difficult to do...am I crazy??

 

[CHUD]

First of all, what is wrong with speculation, as long as we discuss it hypothetically? This does have value for us to at least go through the scenario in our minds and possibly avoid the behavior and/or situation in the future.

Agreed. When I was first starting out I found it really helpful to read such discussions, even when facts were few and a lot of it was hypothetical. Reading the "what if" scenarios was incredibly enlightening for me in terms of teaching me what could happen, why, how to avoid it, prep for it, etc. I really think it's a shame the way discussion is so clamped-down on these topics now.

 

[HowardE]

I find that the A&I discussions usually go the same way here on ScubaBoard, where no one shall be offended by anyone...

I like SB; don't get me wrong. But the A&I threads always get mixed up with a lot of condolonces, which I don't think belong in analysis discussions.

I also think the enevitible blame thrower gets involved, and then it gets ugly.

If analysis could be done while leaving out the victims names, that's great. Kind of like how Law & Order (TV show does it)...

 

[ianr33]

After reading some of the comments, I wanted to suggest that that A&I Forum be somehow split into sections:

1) "Accident Reports" where we would learn about what happened and would be a more appropriate place to leave condolences and offer support.
2) "Accident Discussions" where we would be free to discuss and LEARN from the event(of course with respect to the victims), question the hypothetical and even speculate the what ifs(without name calling and placing hasty blame).

I don't think that would be too difficult to do...am I crazy??

Thats the way it is done on TheDecoStop.

Also Cavediver has a section that allows people to post near misses anonymously

Makes total sense to me

 

[ArcticDiver]

Rereading several of the accident reports leaves one with the distinct impression that in addition to condolences there is a great deal of conversation by people stating he same positions over and over. That is because there just aren't available facts in most cases.

A question was asked about investigations in other hobbies. Well, sky diving accidents are investigated both by the feds and if it results in death by local authorities. And so on for all the other hobbies I can think of.

As has been pointed out before if one is lucky enough to die scuba diving in certain areas the locals will investigate and produce a report. In those cases I think the report ought to be published on SB and people be given an opportuntiy to discuss it.

Facts, causal facts, are useful as a learning tool. Suppositions, biases, and comments by those who take advantage of the situation to promote their personal or business agenda are not.