Adequacy of OW and AOW

[Lobzilla]

Thanks for the great comments and for sharing your experiences.

I was tempted to split OW and AOW but there is no edit possible on a poll (at least, I could not figure it out).

However, regular OW and AOW are similar in the sense that neither involves failure-based training where the instructor 'messes' with you and you have to 'survive'.

Failure-based training, which get's introduced later in Tec or Cave, solidifies skills to the point where you fix a problem first and get scared later. It also allows you to develop a better 'snafuometer', as drydiver called it, because you expect things to go wrong.

 

[drydiver]

However, regular OW and AOW are similar in the sense that neither involves failure-based training where the instructor 'messes' with you and you have to 'survive'.

Failure-based training, which get's introduced later in Tec or Cave, solidifies skills to the point where you fix a problem first and get scared later. It also allows you to develop a better 'snafuometer', as drydiver called it, because you expect things to go wrong.

hmmm, maybe its just me, but which scenario do you think more quickly adjusts a snafuometer?

A - drills in classes where you expect things to happen and the instructor is right there
B - real life where it is just you and your buddy when you aren't "expecting" anything thing to go wrong and the **** hits the fan

While I think failure based training can have its perks with students who thrive in that learning environment, I have seen some pretty big egos grown there as well. Confidence which exceeds experience, to be more precise. That has just been my observation, generalization not intended.

Looking for dives where there is always something new and challenging? Mentor new divers fresh out of OW, never a dull moment

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think I had a pretty good OW and AOW experience. Did I learn everything I needed to know to keep myself out of trouble? Certainly not ... but apparently I learned enough to get myself out of the trouble I got myself into while I was still learning ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[GoldenMaia]

I know I'm new to post here but I wanted to chime in. I don't want to speak badly for any group/program so I'm not going to name any names (you can look at my profile to see my education if you wanna). I learned OW in one program--we had several training classes in pool (6) 1 hour classes + unlimited pool time. Classes were very small and lots of instructor time. We covered removing/clearing mask, removing mask and swimming, removing mask/regulator then recovering regulator and clearing mark, removing BCD in an 'entanglement' situation at 'depth' in the pool and fixing situation and getting back into BCD as well as surface of the same. Then we had our open water dives with the same activities under instructor's watchfulness and some other activities. I loved it, every part of it. Never felt rushed, I felt like we had good amount of class time and pool time and instructor attention.

Then we had to change location and I couldn't go with that program....

The only other program available is the....Other program. But I wanted to get advanced certified. Come to find out I learned everything in my OW classes that I was 'taught' in the AOW--oh, except that I had to pay for a book and a video and pay for my cert and pay for some other items too -- Oh, flash card for underwater. I feel like the items they educate you on in this program as 'advanced' should be NORMAL education for every diver. But at least I got the stamp on a paper that says I can dive in the conditions I want to now (deeper dives and what-not).

I also asked what the normal OW requires in this program. I was informed that it's book-skills, one pool class and then tossed into the ocean. No training on many of the things you might need like swimming without a mask or removing mask and regulator under a 'training' environment.

My first training was in the calm Gulf Coast waters (6 hours of pool time + class time + books + open water) and my additional advanced training in much more challenging California coast waters. (Book time only and then open water).

I want to learn more (would really like to learn wreck diving), but I don't know that I feel comfortable giving this other training program my money because it's all they seem interested in.

 

[TSandM]

There were things, like gas management and dive planning, that I simply wasn't taught in OW or AOW. And then there were things, like executing an air-sharing ascent under control, that they tried to teach me, but I did not learn, at least to the point of competence. (And I know this, because my husband and I tried to do an air-sharing ascent for practice on one of our early dives, and lost buoyancy control and totally corked.) I was a challenging student, with no talent at all for the sport, but I have said many times that I do not think I should have been certified when I was, because I had not demonstrated mastery of a number of things.

 

[gcbryan]

I can view this either way...adequate or inadequate. As someone mentioned it just depends on what your expectations were. I was told that we were (hopefully) learning enough to keep ourselves alive while we continued to gain experience. In that sense it was adequate.

There was a lot that it didn't teach or go into in depth. It was a fairly short course. It was more like drivers training rather than private pilot training. I think much of what one gets out of diver training has to do with the individual...not the individual instructor as is frequently mentioned but the individual diver.

I think diver training works as currently done with limited dollars and training hours. If the industry were totally changed of course it would work equally as well along the lines of the private pilot training model.

I have even less formal training in rock climbing than I have in scuba training. In many ways rock climbing is even less forgiving than scuba yet it works well.

The main issue with limited scuba training is that it's marketed as something you should expect to learn and master in a couple of days. If the industry marketing never existed most people would never assume that diving was something to be taken lightly.

 

[bygolly]

The OW instruction I took in 1979 was great. I had a PADI instructor whose id number was in the low thousands...so he was one of the early ones. And he did a very thorough job and I remember the instruction quite well and also how strict but patient he was. You certainly had to perform the skills before he would pass you.

The AOW ...not so much. Different instructor and I can recall nothing about him nor any of the lessons he taught which were quite minimal. AOW back then was navigation, deep dive, search and recovery and night dive...I don't think there were any optionals then. All I know is that I felt I had self taught myself those skills after all was said and done. But it didn't matter too much to me then as I was young and keen to get on with it.

Since then, I would say that I am pretty much self taught in everything else I know or I have tried to emulate other divers whom I thought were doing the right thing. Much of what I have learned has been obtained on SB. Watching the posts, analyzing the debates, picking the wheat from the chaff and trying to apply what I thought were the most reasonable ideas to the way I conduct my dives. Regular reading here on SB has led me to many online publications and to good books to purchase...the list is quite huge now. I have also learned about important subjects such as gas planning, something I would likely have never heard of if I wasn't reading here.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

I think the goal of the thread/question is noble but it's essentially flawed.

I got my training in 1978. And even though we only did TWO open-water dives back then (plus a skin dive - that was the standard), I felt adequataley preapred mainly because I had it drilled into me what the limitations of my knowledge, experience, and certificiation were.

The question isn't whether or not YOUR training was good. The question is whether or not training NOW is adequate.

The bigger question, for those who feel the standards are inadaquate is: Why do you keep teaching a system you feel is fatally flawed????

- Ken

 

[Spazzy]

The PADI courses sell well but they don't equip a diver with the skills and knowledge necessary to plan and execute a dive safely. An AOW student doesn't get taught how to work as part of a team, plan their gas consumption, undertake a basic rescue, administer CPR or O2, etc, etc. These basic skills are missing from the course so I'd have to say no. This is not to say that the OW/AOW are not great. They can be great courses and meet the needs of a lot of divers. But they don't equip people with the skills I think are necessary to dive safely.

 

[koozemani]

I saw my OW as simply learning what skills I needed to get certified, oh, and not die. I almost think of it as those holiday inn express commercials. There's no substitute for experience.