And another sale gone, another one down... another one bites the dust!

[MikeFerrara]

Zagnut once bubbled...
Somebody PM me the list of "brand X's" and I'll start the email onslaught! Maybe I'll even start wearing a sandwich board everywhere I go.

Scubra Pro - sounds like
Sea Quest - I believe is one

Which brands treat you all the best? Which brands treat you all the worst?

I think I would hesitate to give my list. I do have a vested interest. From my position I would be happy to raise the awareness of the end user such that they have cause to ask question. Such as...

Why would an LDS be afraid of online sales when most already have a website? It doesn't cost much to turn it into an online store. Why wouldn't we just do it too?

How could there be a price difference of hundreds of percent. A variance of a few percent one might expect but when it's this much something funny is going on. What? Who?

If you want a SP reg and the price seems outragous at a dealer but not online why not call SP and ask them about it. Ask them to justify it. I sure am aske to often enough.

The standard answers of the LDS is trying to get rich and the manufacturer is trying to control price is convenient but does it really explain it?

When a company says you must buy from an authorized dealer and you see huge numbers of the stuff online at a fraction of the price ask the manufacturer why and let them know who your buying from and why. If you chose another brand tell them that also.

Why accept a LP warentee when you should have manufacturers warentee. Demand the whole package of reasonable price/value, manufacturers warentee and authorized/competant service. Don't settle for one or the other.

If you have an LDS that you like to do business with but want a specific product that they can't get why not tell the manufacturer where you would like to buy it? Ask them why the LDS can't get it.

Then make your own list.

 

[Genesis]

on all products sold with one.

Disclaiming it as some of these manufacturers try to do won't hold up in front of a judge, and they know it. Magnuson-Moss controls this and it is NOT up for debate as to where you got the product.

In the end you could almost certainly shove this up a manufacturer's hindside if you wanted to.

Now a prepaid service plan, which is really what the "parts for life" thing boils down to, may be a different matter. That they MIGHT get away with. Maybe.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Genesis once bubbled...
on pricing restrictions its basically ALL.

I have seen the agreements for Suunto, Scubapro/Uwatec, Oceanic, DUI, Tusa and a few more. Halcyon PUBLISHES their policy where everyone can see it.

It would probably be easier to identify a list of those who DO NOT price-restrict. I suspect you would find that list fits on the fingers of one hand.

As for forcing exclusivity, Scubapro DOES NOT. One shop here has Scubapro and a few other lines in their shop, including Mares, who are direct competitors. It is my understanding that Atomic and Scubapro both will not give you a dealership if you sell the other, and that this has to do with bad blood between the companies (some of Scubapro's former engineers started Atomic!)

Here is what they do...

Mr brand X I would like to be a dealer.

Well mr LDS what other brands do you carry?

I have A B, C

Well you realize that we expect you to stock and display our entire line dont you? Also we can't open you up intil our rep visits and aproves your store

OK when?

We also need a minimum of an $18,000 opening order. We of course expect anual volumes to go up from there or there isn't any garantee that we can keep you on.

Is this forcing? maybe not but it sure is pushing. You know how you buy a CD and it has one good song on it but you pay for the whole thing. That's what some manufacturers do. They have one or two good products that you really want to carry but in order to do that they try to force you to buy all the other junk they sell.

 

[yknot]

Genesis once bubbled...
on pricing restrictions its basically ALL.

I have seen the agreements for Suunto, Scubapro/Uwatec, Oceanic, DUI, Tusa and a few more. Halcyon PUBLISHES their policy where everyone can see it.

It would probably be easier to identify a list of those who DO NOT price-restrict. I suspect you would find that list fits on the fingers of one hand.

As for forcing exclusivity, Scubapro DOES NOT. One shop here has Scubapro and a few other lines in their shop, including Mares, who are direct competitors. It is my understanding that Atomic and Scubapro both will not give you a dealership if you sell the other, and that this has to do with bad blood between the companies (some of Scubapro's former engineers started Atomic!)

In a sense everything is price restricted. If the wholesale cost is 'X' then the lowest retail price allowable is also 'X'. Isn't there some kind of law against the continued selling of a product for less than cost? There also isn't anything wrong with offering your large customers a price lower than the guy that just buys a few. What the issue centers on is that max discount policy. Is that really true of all brands of gear? Some manufacturers appear to, if not encourage, at least tolerate online sales. It's the rest that we need to focus on.

 

[Genesis]

What the issue centers on is that max discount policy. Is that really true of all brands of gear?

Pretty much so, yes.

As I said, I bet you can fit the ones that DON'T have such a policy on your fingers - and probably on the fingers of one hand.

 

[jhelmuth]

I have an idea...

I'd be willing to sponsor and run a website that would publish the "rules-of-the-game" according to each manufacturer (sort of like the "truth" smoking ads. I'd love to hear from the legal guys out there how I could protect myself in the process. I could acquire this information through a protected source which could be validated in a court of law if required.
Anyway - my point is that once the SCUBA community (consumers) know why things are the way they are, then the manufacturers will have to counteract that (hopefully with practices that make them compete, provide better products and allow the LDS (our life-blood in most instances) to be competitive locally and virtually

GRASS ROOTS ROCKS!
:livid:

 

[Genesis]

On the phone with them right now.

I'll see what kind of $hitstorm I can crank up on this. Some additional calls would be great.

At this point I've gotten the name and number of the President of the Scubapro/Uwatec division (getting that was like pulling wisdom teeth without novocaine!) and the fun is about to begin.

BTW, Scubapro is particularly vulnerable to pressure here, because a boycott could also be directed against a dozen other brands, including such things as Minn-Kota trolling motors and Ocean Kayaks, along with a half-dozen camping gear manufacturers.

 

[TCDiver1]

Genesis once bubbled...
It is my understanding that Atomic and Scubapro both will not give you a dealership if you sell the other, and that this has to do with bad blood between the companies (some of Scubapro's former engineers started Atomic!)

Not true here. One LDS has Scubapro, Atomic, Mares, Poseidon, Oceanic, Tusa, Zeagle ..... He has more whistles and bells in that LDS than most Divers Supplys i've seen.

 

[Genesis]

for that story.

Just another LDS lie, I see...

 

[TCDiver1]

Man, 300 posts in five days, thats gotta be some kind of scubaboard record. I must admit G-man, you know how to start em!