Another SMB decision question...

[TSandM]

I like my Halcyon bag. I like that you can inflate it from the hose, or orally, and I like the standard OPV. It's big enough to be seen even in moderate surface chop (not enough for real swells, but we really don't have those in the Sound).

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

@GrumpyOldGuy: I believe what needs to be resolved is whether purging a second stage induces a higher overall flow rate in the first stage than two stressed divers during an air share.....

I am positive the purge button pressed fully will exceed the combined load of the 2 biggest hoovers you have ever seen....but a purge valve does not need to be pressed fully down to inflate an SMB any more than you need to floor your accelerator on your car in normal traffic.

The last question was about momentary use of the purge would freeze a 2nd in cold water - any 2nd according to the poster in 5-7 seconds. I think it is an interesting question, I have my own thoughts of course but I don't want to go back and forth on what I think or I think should happen when it is easy for me to test next week and know what will happen.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I am positive the purge button pressed fully will exceed the combined load of the 2 biggest hoovers you have ever seen....but a purge valve does not need to be pressed fully down to inflate an SMB...

That's an excellent point.

 

[StreetDoctor]

I am positive the purge button pressed fully will exceed the combined load of the 2 biggest hoovers you have ever seen....but a purge valve does not need to be pressed fully down to inflate an SMB any more than you need to floor your accelerator on your car in normal traffic.

The last question was about momentary use of the purge would freeze a 2nd in cold water - any 2nd according to the poster in 5-7 seconds. I think it is an interesting question, I have my own thoughts of course but I don't want to go back and forth on what I think or I think should happen when it is easy for me to test next week and know what will happen.

How cold of water are you diving in? Here in the midwest the water rarely gets above mid 40's at depth even in the middle of summer. I dive Apeks DS4/XTX50's (3 of them) that are quite possibly regarded as the best cold water regs on the market. My fiance dives an xtx200. My dive buddy dives subapro MK25/S600's. All of our regulators will free flow in cold water if you hold down the purge button for too long, especially if they are oriented up which is how they would be if you were using it to inflate a bag.

 

[Troutmaster]

I gotta agree with StreetDoctor on this one, our definition of "cold" water is just above freezing, say 34 to 36 degrees. 40 to 45 is cool and anything above 60 is bathwater. I don't know if you will freeze it up at 40, but if you want to try it at 36 degrees I will break out the chainsaw and the lines....

 

[Pudsky]

I gotta agree with StreetDoctor on this one, our definition of "cold" water is just above freezing, say 34 to 36 degrees. 40 to 45 is cool and anything above 60 is bathwater. I don't know if you will freeze it up at 40, but if you want to try it at 36 degrees I will break out the chainsaw and the lines....

For some reason, I don't think a diver will ever have to worry about shooting a SMB under the ice...

 

[*dave*]

OP: Sorry for the hijack, but it appears you got what you were looking for?

One way to see it: just have your second stage wet and then breath it on the surface when the surface temp is below 0. The colder the faster it happens. Sometimes you can get it if you just breath in and out off the reg with low surface temps.

Well, that's exactly how you freeze a first stage. How can you tell the second is frozen and not the first?

We don't breathe our regs on the surface when temps drop below 45. While I've never had my Apeks freeze, I've seen the rental AL Titans, as well as multiple SP regs freeze up.

For those of you who have never froze a second stage, trust me it happens. I have never been bitten by a shark but I will take the word of the guy with the scars that it can happen.

Just guessing here, but I likely have >300 divers in water <45 degrees and have been diving it since the late 70's. I've seen lots of uncontrolled freeflows that led to frozen first stages, mainly among students, but never a frozen second stage. Given my experience, one might think I would know better, but perhaps I don't.... Help me out here: How do you tell the second stage is frozen and not the first stage?

 

[elan]

OP: Sorry for the hijack, but it appears you got what you were looking for?Well, that's exactly how you freeze a first stage. How can you tell the second is frozen and ot the first?

If you handle your first stage properly there will be nothing to freeze in the first stage. I'm talking about sealed stage. If you just purge your 2nd stage while it's dry and it does not free flow it would mean the 1 st stage is ok. Then have the second wet and do it again. It will most likely lock up after a while.

 

[elan]

If you handle your first stage properly there will be nothing to freeze in the first stage. I'm talking about sealed stage. If you just purge your 2nd stage while it's dry and it does not free flow it would mean the 1 st stage is ok. Then have the second wet and do it again. It will most likely lock up after a while.

Another way to see if it's the second stage frozen or the first, if you have another second stage or LP hose, if it's the second stage your second second will be working normally, if the first stage has frozen it will start flowing as well.

I"m not a technician but those are observations I have made. The second stage free flow may eventually cause the first stage tree flow.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I gotta agree with StreetDoctor on this one, our definition of "cold" water is just above freezing, say 34 to 36 degrees. 40 to 45 is cool and anything above 60 is bathwater. I don't know if you will freeze it up at 40, but if you want to try it at 36 degrees I will break out the chainsaw and the lines....

FYI: The lakes here are 39/40F. Not quit as cold as yours, but then again being a real man, I dive wet.