AquaSafari

[Backscatter]

"I imagine that he did not see your dive flag initially because he wasn't watching for one because you were in an area where divers are not supposed to be."

Christi, even if teknitroxdiver was diving in a place he should not have been, I don't see how that relieves the skipper of a vessel underway of his responsibility to maintain a proper lookout.

If he is not watching for a dive flag, what else is he not going to see and hit or run over? It's not just an issue of the diver's safety, depending on what the boat might hit, it could also endanger the safety of the passengers and crew.

"As I said, there are REASONS for our marine park rules and this is simply ONE of them."

If boat operators encounter someone diving where they ought not to be, then the proper response would be to notify the National Park personnel and let them deal with the diver.

I have never been to Cozumel and am not speaking from any local knowledge, but if the incident occurred as teknitroxdiver described it, it's a scary indicator of the mindset of the employees working for AquaSafari.

I'm eager to see what response, if any, AquaSafari presents. It's one thing if they dispute the facts of the incident, but I'd be dissapointed if they simply blamed the diver for being in the wrong place. There are a lot of reasons that hazards might be in the path of a moving vessel, I'd like to think that the crew is prepared to respond to any that they encounter.

 

[DandyDon]

Christi,
Can you add this info to the sticky on Cozumel? I've been to Coz 3 times and considered shore diving but was unaware of this info. The concerns and rules of diving in that environment should be available to everyone. Thanks for offering up a possible explanation.

Maybe that'd be a bit much, for now at least? I have a feeling this thread it going to be a bit much before it finishes...

"I imagine that he did not see your dive flag initially because he wasn't watching for one because you were in an area where divers are not supposed to be."

Christi, even if teknitroxdiver was diving in a place he should not have been, I don't see how that relieves the skipper of a vessel underway of his responsibility to maintain a proper lookout.

This is true, at least in itself. There is a minimum of 2 sides to this story, tho - and it would be good to hear from the Op ASAP. NetDoc has emailed the Op. I wonder if anyone on the island now could phone the Op with a request to take a look and perhaps address this?

The verbal exchange described may end up being a case of "he said/I said"...?

If he is not watching for a dive flag, what else is he not going to see and hit or run over? It's not just an issue of the diver's safety, depending on what the boat might hit, it could also endanger the safety of the passengers and crew.

It's been reported that he hit it. There are many reasons why he may have been watching possibly, but not seen it. Sun reflecting on the water at 3pm, other boat traffic in a busy non-diving area, etc. Possibilities.

"As I said, there are REASONS for our marine park rules and this is simply ONE of them."

If boat operators encounter someone diving where they ought not to be, then the proper response would be to notify the National Park personnel and let them deal with the diver.

True. At this point we don't know that they actually did anything intentioally.

I have never been to Cozumel and am not speaking from any local knowledge, but if the incident occurred as teknitroxdiver described it, it's a scary indicator of the mindset of the employees working for AquaSafari.

TND may or may not have described the incident completely and accurately. As mention, AquaSafari has a good rep in a rep sensitive business, so I kinda doubt that they simply turn mavericks lose with boat.

I'm eager to see what response, if any, AquaSafari presents. It's one thing if they dispute the facts of the incident, but I'd be dissapointed if they simply blamed the diver for being in the wrong place. There are a lot of reasons that hazards might be in the path of a moving vessel, I'd like to think that the crew is prepared to respond to any that they encounter.

I do hope they have time to address this this weekend.

Like the reasons & rules or not, Coz does have rules prohibiting such things as diving the park without a local, authorized DM;
diving in boat channels;
and foreigners teaching there. I know that TND says he wasn't but do want to include that as a reminder here.

 

[Christi]

Christi,
Can you add this info to the sticky on Cozumel? I've been to Coz 3 times and considered shore diving but was unaware of this info. The concerns and rules of diving in that environment should be available to everyone. Thanks for offering up a possible explanation.

It actually is. Every dive operator has the marine park rules available and should inform their divers of the marine park regulations. I actually have the marine park rules on my website here: Cozumel Diving: Blue XT SEA Diving, Cozumel Mexico

Christi, even if teknitroxdiver was diving in a place he should not have been, I don't see how that relieves the skipper of a vessel underway of his responsibility to maintain a proper lookout.

If he is not watching for a dive flag, what else is he not going to see and hit or run over? It's not just an issue of the diver's safety, depending on what the boat might hit, it could also endanger the safety of the passengers and crew.

Please read my post(s) again. I never said that the Captain should be relieved of his responsibility...nor did I say that this was not a dangerous situation. In fact, I said several times that I am not defending irresponsible/unsafe behavior. I was not there so I can't possibly know exactly what/how this happened. I presented another point of view...the Devil's Advocate point of view.

I simply pointed out that he bears some responsibility as well if in fact he was in a place he shouldn't have been...both parties bear responsibility. It saddens me how many people do not take any responsibility at all for their own errors these days. I am very glad that there were not any injuries or worse. If there had been, it wouldn't matter who was responsible. The point is that we ALL have to take responsibility and be proactive in our own safety.

As far as the mindset of the employees of Aqua Safari, this is surprising to me. I know most if not all of the Captain's and Instructors/DM's for them and they are all extremely professional. I wasn't there, so I cannot speak to what was said. AS I stated before, I was presenting the Devil's Advocate position while pointing out some local regulations.

 

[Backscatter]

"I was presenting the Devil's Advocate position while pointing out some local regulations."

Christi,

Absolutely, I do understand and I appreciate you sharing information that wasn't in the original post.

IF the incident occurred as originally described, then the disturbing part is the crew's response to being called on it. The fact that the diver may have been diving in a prohibited area is relevant, but from I gather out of TND's post is that his verbal exchange with the crew is what has him the most upset. He may or may not have known he was in a prohibited area, the crew could have advised him of such in a professional manner and possibly even have made sure he was ok and in a condition to remain in the water, after the near miss.

Pending a response from AquaSafari, I'm giving the OP the benefit of doubt. I realize it is entirely possible that he wasn't as civil and reasonable when the crew as he recalls, I know I might not have been in a similar situation!:11:

As has been mentioned in earlier posts, there are at least two sides to every story. We are contemplating a trip to Cozumel, so I am very interested in AquaSafari's response. It's been posted that the no-dive areas are very well marked and plenty of notice is given, but still, I'd like to think that the locals would politely remind wayward visitors of their mistake.

 

[teknitroxdiver]

Christi,

Thanks for the reply. I was not diving in a "navigational channel". This happened just offshore of the parking area just north of the marina inlet. The place where hundreds of snorkelers and divers come from boat and shore each day. It is most definitely a dive site.

This is what I object to. You posted this (and five other boards) BEFORE contacting the owner/manager.

Two other boards.

I have to disagree with your idea to not post this on message boards. No matter what the outcome, I would post it here anyway.

The "next time I come to Cozumel" will be tomorrow, and the day after that, etc etc....I live here. Perhaps I am supposed to pay the $2 fee. That is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Yes, I was in the park without a permit. I don't think I ever denied that in the original post. Myself and most others would agree that is not right. However, fee paid or not, when diving at a dive site, it doesn't excuse others of following safety laws. In fact, even if I were in the middle of the channel, a boat must avoid a dive flag....it doesn't matter if it's a "dive site" or not.

This area is one of the busiest dive sites in Cozumel. I've seen 400 snorkelers and divers there at one time, coming from shore and off boats.

 

[Christi]

"I was presenting the Devil's Advocate position while pointing out some local regulations."

Christi,

Absolutely, I do understand and I appreciate you sharing information that wasn't in the original post.

IF the incident occurred as originally described, then the disturbing part is the crew's response to being called on it. The fact that the diver may have been diving in a prohibited area is relevant, but from I gather out of TND's post is that his verbal exchange with the crew is what has him the most upset. He may or may not have known he was in a prohibited area, the crew could have advised him of such in a professional manner and possibly even have made sure he was ok and in a condition to remain in the water, after the near miss.

Pending a response from AquaSafari, I'm giving the OP the benefit of doubt. I realize it is entirely possible that he wasn't as civil and reasonable when the crew as he recalls, I know I might not have been in a similar situation!:11:

As has been mentioned in earlier posts, there are at least two sides to every story. We are contemplating a trip to Cozumel, so I am very interested in AquaSafari's response. It's been posted that the no-dive areas are very well marked and plenty of notice is given, but still, I'd like to think that the locals would politely remind wayward visitors of their mistake.

I agree, if the verbal exchange happened as stated, it was very unprofessional, and as I said surprises me...although I can't say one way or th other, because I wasn't there. I have a feeling there was more (or less) to it though...there always is.

 

[tlmainer]

If you live in Coz, why don't you go to Aqua Safari's shop and talk to them about it instead of waiting for an email response?

 

[Christi]

Christi,

Thanks for the reply. I was not diving in a "navigational channel". This happened just offshore of the parking area just north of the marina inlet. The place where hundreds of snorkelers and divers come from boat and shore each day. It is most definitely a dive site.



Two other boards.

I have to disagree with your idea to not post this on message boards. No matter what the outcome, I would post it here anyway.

The "next time I come to Cozumel" will be tomorrow, and the day after that, etc etc....I live here. Perhaps I am supposed to pay the $2 fee. That is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Yes, I was in the park without a permit. I don't think I ever denied that in the original post. Myself and most others would agree that is not right. However, fee paid or not, when diving at a dive site, it doesn't excuse others of following safety laws. In fact, even if I were in the middle of the channel, a boat must avoid a dive flag....it doesn't matter if it's a "dive site" or not.

This area is one of the busiest dive sites in Cozumel. I've seen 400 snorkelers and divers there at one time, coming from shore and off boats.

I am assuming that you were at Paradise. If you were in the area between the reef and the shore, that is in fact a navigational channel. Did you actually swim out to the reef and back?

Once again, I NEVER said the Captain or ANYONE should be relieved of their responsibility. I've said the opposite numerous times, I can't understand why everyone keeps missing that.

And yes, even though you may now live in Cozumel, you must still have a park permit...and I agree that it is irrelevant with regards to safety concerns. I was making the point not about the permit...but about diving with a local and experienced guide who knows where to dive and not to dive.

I'm very glad that this didn't turn out worse. It would have been tragic for everyone involved.

We can agree to disagree on posting it on the boards before addressing it with the owner/management. As Don said, they NEED to know if they have a maverick on their hands because they cannot fix it if they don't know about it. However, raking an entire operation (with a long established reputation for professionalism and safety) over the coals over the actions of one or two crew members (of about 60) is in my opinion also irresponsible.

If you live in Coz, why don't you go to Aqua Safari's shop and talk to them about it instead of waiting for an email response?

Exactly.

 

[ggunn]

Christi,

Perhaps I am supposed to pay the $2 fee. That is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Yes, I was in the park without a permit. I don't think I ever denied that in the original post. Myself and most others would agree that is not right. However, fee paid or not, when diving at a dive site, it doesn't excuse others of following safety laws. In fact, even if I were in the middle of the channel, a boat must avoid a dive flag....it doesn't matter if it's a "dive site" or not.

If I interpret the rules correctly, it isn't a matter of the $2 fee; you could not have been diving there legally if you didn't have a licensed Cozumel guide with you. Christi, please correct me if I am in error.

 

[teknitroxdiver]

I am assuming that you were at Paradise. If you were in the area between the reef and the shore, that is in fact a navigational channel. Did you actually swim out to the reef and back?

Yes. Swam out and back in on the bottom. This happened right where the bottom rises up steeply to the shallow water around the entrance. I think the nav channel is a little farther out than that. He wasn't transitioning the area anyway, he was coming in to drop divers.

diving with a local and experienced guide who knows where to dive and not to dive.

How could a Mexican National have done anything at all to make this situation safer? Dig a subway tunnel out to the reef? We were on the bottom with a 4' tall flag on the surface.

We can agree to disagree on posting it on the boards before addressing it with the owner/management. As Don said, they NEED to know if they have a maverick on their hands because they cannot fix it if they don't know about it. However, raking an entire operation (with a long established reputation for professionalism and safety) over the coals over the actions of one or two crew members (of about 60) is in my opinion also irresponsible.

I don't have a problem with being wrong in public, so if they come back and apologize, I'll post that on here. I think that no matter what the outcome is, with it all posted here we can all learn something from it.



I didn't go to their shop, mainly because it was 5 pm when we were done and I had things to do. Also, I didn't want them to get into another shouting match with me, the guys on the boat refused to talk nicely with me, who knows how the store workers would act. They might be fine, maybe not.

An email will likely go farther to the top of management that I could by walking into their store (just an uninformed assumption by me here), and might get a better response because they will get a full, detailed description of the whole events in writing, can review that with the involved employees, and the send back a detailed response in writing.



About being required to dive with a local guide, can you provide an official link to that law? I read AquaSafaris' section about the Marine Park, and they only say that a diver must purchase the $2 bracelet. The Cozumel Reefs National Marine Park The last sentences. That's also all that the sign at Paradise says. I'm not saying your page is wrong, I'd just like to verify it.