Are Rescue Skills really needed by the average diver.... ?

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In response to the original question of: How far should I go in training to be an Average or Recreational Diver?

In my humble opinion, I feel this is a personal question to be answered by each diver.

It is not a simple as one agency's certification versus another. From what it sounds like from the older scuba divers on this board, the training now is significantly reduced from the initial standards due to a whole bunch of technological and procedural improvements. Thus the theoretical, mathematical "average" diver nowadays is much less prepared. So we need to focus on the why you need the training instead of what training.

If asked for advice for this question, I would approach it the same way as if someone asked me for advice when to do a master's program or a doctoral program: Go get experience first and answer the question yourself. Sure, you can go get a Rescue Diver Certification or a Master's Degree, but if you do not have the relevant diving or experience in the field you will study, it will do you little good.

I would not expect that every diver can progress through the x number of minimum dives on each course. Some people have natural dispositions that will allow for the quick progression through the ranks of a program. This does not mean all should be allowed to advance at the same rate. For me it is the responsibility of each instructor to determine whether or not the person meets the requirements. If they don't, even if it means giving a refund or turning a client away, they should be required to possess the skills required. Sell them a refresher course if they need it.

I think, in the spirit of your analogy, it would be more like someone who just learned how to read asking "should I learn how to add, too?"

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I think, in the spirit of your analogy, it would be more like someone who just learned how to read asking "should I learn how to add, too?"

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I disagree. I was referring to teaching adults, not children. That is a whole different discussion.

I see your point though. But I feel it would be more like trying to teach someone the future tense in a foreign language before the present tense. I mean you could, but I would ask what is the benefit of teaching it that way?
 
Certainly, these are all good skills to have, but pragmatically, since one can't really perform CPR effectively while in water, you could also say that for diving purposes, "Rescue" could reasonably constrain its scope to essentially just in-water skill set.

For example, just how many Rescue Divers do we think there are out the with expired CPR certifications? Do we say that they're no longer a Rescue Diver if they've not maintained currency on its prerequisites? Why or why not?


-hh
Once you get the victim out of the water are you just going to sit around waiting for the paramedics to get there? Yes, you do need to know CPR as well.
I once saved my neighbor's grandchild after a near drowning in their pool. They didn't know CPR and we were a long way from the hospital. I really believe everybody should have a basic CPR class, especially if they are going to participate in water sports or adventure sports.
 
I really believe everybody should have a basic CPR class, especially if they are going to participate in water sports or adventure sports.

Agree, wholeheartedly. Would add or if they have parents, friends, children, or anyone who ever goes outside of a hermetically sealed bubble. CANNOT imagine how horrifying it would be to have an incident end badly where I was near, and did not have the skills to do something.
 
In 1967 the aircraft carrier USS Forestal caught fire when a bomb accidentally exploded on deck. In dealing with the fire, all of the trained fire fighters were dead within only a very short time. The sailors that were left had no training or experience fighting fires. Because of this, the Navy now trains all sailors as firefighters.

Yes all divers should have rescue training.

That was for Aircraft Carriers where you have enough people to be specialized, I was trained a a firefighter in '65, but was on smaller surface craft and submarines. There was refreshers and specialized training throughout my time in service.

Yes, all divers should have rescue training.

Bob
-----------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.
 
Once you get the victim out of the water are you just going to sit around waiting for the paramedics to get there? Yes, you do need to know CPR as well.

I agree that CPR/1st Aid is a good complimentary skill, but let's rephrase the question: if you've just exerted yourself to get a body up to the surface and to the transom, you're more than likely going to hand off the victim to others to continue the rescue.

Similarly, if a victim is now on the deck with a half dozen rescue divers surrounding them, the best assistance (all other factors being equal) will come from the guy whose CPR card is the most current (ie, "least expired"), as his skills have atrophied the least...even if this is a non-diving boat captain.

I once saved my neighbor's grandchild after a near drowning in their pool. They didn't know CPR and we were a long way from the hospital.

Glad to hear; I've conducted rescues which didn't get as far as CPR. However, the problem with many 'What Ifs?' is that real life is rarely textbook simple and often, there's something 'important' that was never covered in training which needs to be overcome on the fly.

For example I can recall a successful rescue of a Dive Instructor who had been violating shop policy by freediving off the diveboat that he was supposed to be topside on (root cause): he had a shallow water blackout and was falling off the wall when his body was snagged by a fellow Instructor (busy teaching), who was able to successfully stop his descent at 130fsw, and then brought up the victim.

The rescuer's rapid ascent resulted in her being at high risk of being bent in the process, so she handed off the victim to a second rescuer - and then went back down solo, to start an improvised recompression/deco schedule for an IWR self-rescue.

The second rescuer was another Dive Instructor who, like the first, was also just coincidentally onboard: he had been hired to conduct a Reef survey for the local Government. He supervised the effort at the diveboat's transom to get the victim hauled onboard with a couple of 'normal' (customer) divers who joined in the rescue effort (think about how to do this, and if it is practiced at all during training).

The third rescuer steps in to play their part: a retired medical doctor with a specialization in hyperbaric medicine who aborted his dive based on the verbal UW recall from the first rescuer. He took over the medical aid, and promptly rolled the victim onto their side, directing (ordering!) that the CPR be modified thusly, rather than performed traditionally with the victim flat on their back. Rescuer #2 complied while the MD grabbed the boat's O2 kit...and promptly overrode its default configuration as well (I didn't catch these details).

As this diveboat cast off and headed in, a second diveboat which had been scrambled (my nondiver wife watched the seamanship mastery of its departure from the anchorage, doing 20+knots in a 2mph zone, which included making the tight turn to go out the narrow inlet) picked up the rest of the divers and supported Rescuer #1 on their IWR deco schedule.

The victim was transported over land to the local hospital, with the MD (rescuer #3) in charge, which continued at the hospital too, as the local medical staff was less qualified. After a treatment with Curare for stabilization, the victim came to ... and wanted to know how badly mangled his motorcycle was from 'the accident'.

Late that evening, we finally had the birthday cake for Doctor Lloyd ... this was one hell of a way for him to have celebrated his birthday.

One of the things that came up as we discussed the accident was why he ordered the victim to be rolled onto their side. The answer was that he detected red foam in the mouth which indicated that it wasn't a simple SWBO or drowning, but the victim had also suffered a major lung squeeze (the unconscious fall to 130fsw), which needed draining from the airway at the same time that restorative O2 needed to be provided, or else the CPR wouldn't have been effective. All in all, this victim - who should have known better in the first place - was phenomenally lucky to have had the perfect combination of rescuers onboard to save his life.


I really believe everybody should have a basic CPR class, especially if they are going to participate in water sports or adventure sports.

I agree...and yet I can also see that the problem with this is that we would be folding Rescue Diver and CPR into the requirements for OW-I, which from a business development perspective would be vehemently opposed by the Agencies - they would scream at how 'inaccessible' this makes diving. Plus it is also a sobering contrarian reality to the classical "Scuba is SAFE and FUN!" marketing message.


-hh
 
interesting threat. my basic class included diver assists (tows), sharing air, etc. Not sure a full blown rescue and recovery course is needed. As I read through the thread, I thought if we subsituted swimming for diving and lifeguard course for rescue course, how many people would agree? maybe a variation of the mantra for water safety "reach, throw, row, but don't go" and a corresponding skill set is what is needed.
 
Hh-I dive often without a lot of bystanders. My husband and I enjoy night diving and oftentimes, even at popular diving places like Catalina Dive Prk, it will be completely isolated at night.
Even with a crowd of people, I would never assume that they will take over a rescue, and plan my training on this concept. Nor would my husband or anybody that we've trained.
Yes, frequently somebody can help when you get to shore but you have to assume that you will be running the rescue and the most educated person on the scene.
I'm also a physician and have worked many "codes" in the hospital. I've never heard of doing a resuciation with the victim in anything but prone position. Yes, the airway needs to be kept clear, ideally with suction. Perhaps that MD sees a lot of barotrauma victims out in the field and has a special method of treating them but I can assure you this is not a common method that you will see often.
 
I am interested in doing Rescue Diver training to be more familiar with self-rescue techniques, and also because when I dive with my wife I am constantly looking after her to make sure she is ok. If there was a problem, I want to know that I could take care of the situation and rescue her if needed. I am CPR trained and I read on Scuba Board a lot through the accidents section to learn from experience what has caused problems. I am very comfortable in the water with 95 dives under my belt (Live in Dallas with a busy job, so hard to get away otherwise I'd have probably a thousand now, ha). More than half our vacations are diving related.

Is there a resource online where I can read through an in-depth list of the lessons in PADI's course? I see some very basic things listed here by all of you (self rescue, rescue from depth, surface rescue, etc) and I've seen the water dives for rescue courses in action at the scuba park here, but I would really like more details. I could just buy the book as I enjoy reading about anything scuba related, but most courses come with the book. I could just sign up (and probably will soon), but just trying to get a bit ahead. I'm sure others here could use this info too.

Thanks!
 
You can buy the book or crew pack on Amazon but you really need the class. This is a class I'd highly recommend that you take with your wife. It's really not the type of thing you can learn from a book.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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