Bad photographers at SCUBA Club

[dmoore19]

Who is "we"? I remember participating in the first Earth Day. You are correct, attitudes change but for some of us the attitude has never changed.

And we also threw our trash out the car windows littering the highways, used the ocean as the world's garbage dump etc. Back in the early 80's I took the glass bottom boat tour at John Pennekamp Park in the Florida Keys. The trip from the dock to deep water showed me just how stupid people are. The floor of the channel was littered with countless beer bottles, beer cans and other garbage and this was supposed to be a State Park. Things & attitudes change, some for the better & some for the worse until we learn it's doing harm.

As for just how protected Sea Turtles are I came very close to being arrested in St Augustine after rescuing a very small one at the tail end of a Tropical storm. I spotted it in some sea weed washed ashore & it was exhausted. I carried it out past the bad surf to see if it could swim on it's own but it couldn't so I caught it & took it back to the park. It would have been run over if left on the beach because people drive up & down it all day long, and one of those vehicles belongs to a Turtle Rescue program but it wasn't around at the time & we couldn't find their phone number. We phoned the Sheriff's Office to see who they recommended we call & I was IMMEDIATELY warned not to harm it or I'd be arrested & charged, and I was given the same attitude by the Rescue people over the phone, but once they arrived things improved attitude wise. They did however make it VERY CLEAR that had that baby been healthy rather than near death I could have been in serious trouble just for picking it up. They were able to nurse it back to healthy & it and some others were taken out placed in the Gulf Stream where they hopefully survived.

 

[mediumone]

Who is "we"? I remember participating in the first Earth Day. You are correct, attitudes change but for some of us the attitude has never changed.

+1

Well said.:cool2:

 

[Mossman]

The laws are pretty clear. There is some allowance for ignorance of the ESA, but secondary offenses usually will be punished. NOAA lists cases won and usually the fine is fairly high when cases are prosecuted. And yes, there are a few Sea Turtle related cases. NOAA will list them regionally, just go to their web site. I will say most, not all, cases that I have read about involve fishing nets and scalloping.

Common sense would say just leave things alone, but some people are hard headed and don't like rules.

The law is not clear at all when it comes to touching. The law says "harm" and "harass" and "pursue" and "hunt" and "shoot" and "wound" and "kill" and "trap" and "capture" and "collect". Surely if the legislators wanted to include mere touching, they they easily could have added "touching" to the list.

But the law is clear on "pursue". So I again ask, if you saw a diver following a turtle with a video camera in U.S. waters, would you alert the proper authorities so the diver could be arrested and appropriately punished?

"Section 9 prohibits the sale, import, export, or transport of any endangered species and most threatened species, and makes it unlawful to "take" them. The term "take" is broadly defined as "to harass, harm, pursue, hunt, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, or collect, or to attempt to engage in any such conduct."

---------- Post added January 3rd, 2014 at 10:42 PM ----------

"

The Court turned to an analogous Federal statute, the Endangered Species Act (ESA), to assist it in its interpretation of the State statute. In the federal statute, the term “harass” is defined as "an intentional or negligent act or omission which creates the likelihood of injury to wildlife by annoying it to such an extent as to significantly disrupt normal behavioral patterns which include, but are not limited to, breeding, feeding, or sheltering.” The Court used the federal ESA definition of “harass” and determined that the term “harass” meant an “intentional or negligent act which creates the likelihood of injury to an endangered species by annoying the species to such an extent as to significantly disrupt its normal behavioral patterns.”​

---------- Post added January 3rd, 2014 at 10:44 PM ----------

So lightly caressing the shell of a wounded turtle sleeping in a wreck is annoying it to such extent as to significantly disrupt normal behavioral patterns when the turtle doesn't even notice?

 

[vincent54]

"If you are lucky enough to see a sea turtle in the wild, do not attempt to touch or grab it." A direct quote from the State of Hawaii. I think it means don't touch.

When I dive off boats in Cayman, no one is allowed to touch the Sea Turtles or anything else for that matter,. The DM's are pretty consistent with the policy. Unfortunately divers do collide with the reef looking for things, but most do a concerted effort to keep off the bottom. The Hurricane pretty much did the big damage, not the bad SCUBA divers. It is always good to gently remind people to look don't touch, which to me should include Stingray City, but I'm not going to freak out if someone does. We won't even discuss the atrocities at the Turtle Farm, that's a problem.

To answer the question about calling in if someone wants to touch a turtle is, of course not. If a turtle is entangled, help it out. You probably won't/shouldn't get a ticket. There is a difference. Teasing, tugging, riding, or any other malicious act ,I certainly would at least interfere or call the hotline. I will admit the laws are odd in some circumstances. Like I said, I am ashamed of how myself and buddies treated the ocean when we started diving in the early seventies. They weren't always the good old days, and that includes the Cousteau BS.

 

[cicopo]

Who is "we"? I remember participating in the first Earth Day. You are correct, attitudes change but for some of us the attitude has never changed.

We is the general population back in the 50's when I was a boy. However since I live in a rural area where people still throw their garbage out of their cars (as well as drop off stuff the garbage trucks no longer accept) I can clearly say the need for anti littering laws hasn't faded into history. There are still a lot of people who think everywhere except where they live can be their garbage dump.

 

[Mossman]

"If you are lucky enough to see a sea turtle in the wild, do not attempt to touch or grab it." A direct quote from the State of Hawaii. I think it means don't touch.

A direct quote, maybe. But you're quoting a suggestion, not a law. There's a big difference.

When I dive off boats in Cayman, no one is allowed to touch the Sea Turtles or anything else for that matter,. The DM's are pretty consistent with the policy. Unfortunately divers do collide with the reef looking for things, but most do a concerted effort to keep off the bottom. The Hurricane pretty much did the big damage, not the bad SCUBA divers. It is always good to gently remind people to look don't touch, which to me should include Stingray City, but I'm not going to freak out if someone does. We won't even discuss the atrocities at the Turtle Farm, that's a problem.

Atrocities? Do tell. I thought the reason why we aren't supposed to harass sea turtles is because they're endangered. If they turtle farm is raising them for food, what's the harm in eating them? After all, it's not like they're smart creatures like chickens.

When I first dove the Caymans, there was a strict 90' max depth rule and they banned gay cruiseships from the island. Was that to help the turtles?

To answer the question about calling in if someone wants to touch a turtle is, of course not. If a turtle is entangled, help it out. You probably won't/shouldn't get a ticket. There is a difference. Teasing, tugging, riding, or any other malicious act ,I certainly would at least interfere or call the hotline. I will admit the laws are odd in some circumstances.

The law is the law. If you see an entangled turtle, you must find someone with a legal permit so they can rescue it. Otherwise, if I see you trying to save a dying turtle without a permit, I will report you so you can be arrested and appropriately punished!

Like I said, I am ashamed of how myself and buddies treated the ocean when we started diving in the early seventies. They weren't always the good old days, and that includes the Cousteau BS.

Ah, that explains your attitude: I did 100 times worse back in the day so I had better make sure no one gets to do it now. Like a former smoker on an anti-smoking crusade. You've been saved. Now you must save everyone else.

Thing is, back in the day, I never harrassed sea turtles. Therefore, I don't carry the guilt and self-loathing that would otherwise cause me to report every incidence of turtle harrassment I see.

 

[cvchief]

You know my local friends on the island said turtle soup was REALLY good back in the day. Is that not pc?

 

[Mike]

If somebody turned me into the turtle police if they saw me petting a turtle on the head and scratching it under the chin... well that's weak.

 

[ggunn]

You know my local friends on the island said turtle soup was REALLY good back in the day. Is that not pc?

One of the best meals I ever had on Cozumel was a turtle steak back in the 70's.

 

[Mossman]

If somebody turned me into the turtle police if they saw me petting a turtle on the head and scratching it under the chin... well that's weak.

But you're disturbing their natural behavior. Soon all turtles will want nothing more than to be scratched under the chin. Without enough divers to scratch them, they'll invade land and start eating human babies!