Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[DennisS]

As far as I recall in this long thread, it was speculation only that the diver might have had a stroke.

Yes, it was only speculation that she was a stroke victim

 

[jayjoans]

No, it was not speculation. My friend was very familiar with Mrs. Wood, he worked with her professionally. He reported that she had a stroke recently, he did not mention the severity. He also mentioned that in normal life she had an aggressive manner, hearing that she was agitated and reacted the way she did during this mishap was not completely out of character for her.

Whether or not the DM acted appropriately or not has been argued well on this thread. For my money, the possibility of another stroke episode at depth makes the most sense to me. Often a symptom of stroke is combativeness and confusion. I don't think it was suicide, I think she was struggling with a pre-existing condition that got much worse at the wrong time. It may be that she felt this might be her last chance ever to dive, her husband was concerned for her safety and they found a compromise in hiring a DM to be her buddy "just in case". From what I was told by a friend of hers, she rarely took no for an answer and her strength of personality was high.

Whether or not the DM acted appropriately is another matter.


Clarification: it IS speculation that she had a stroke on the dive, it is not speculation that she had a stroke in recent months.

 

[miketsp]

Wow, I just managed to read through this whole tortuous thread.

One of the things that strikes me as a little strange is that various experienced posters made reference to "grab the tank valve and ascend with positive buoyancy".

This isn't always as easy as stated. It's quite probable that the DM had already deflated (at least partially) in order to swim down fast to the victim.
Once you're at 140' descending fast you really need to start pushing air in fast to get back to neutrality because of the increasing bladder compaction with depth. It was mentioned that the DM was female and petite so she may well have have been diving a small female style BC with limited lift even when full.
Over the years I've used BCs with extremely varying inflation rates when you press the inflator button and I've read various accident reports where divers who left inflation too late were unable to get enough air back into their BC fast enough to overcome increasing ambient pressure and continued to descend.
Those of us that regularly dive deeper know that you feed in air as you go down to control descent rate and don't let things get out of control.

Rescue courses are normally carried out at shallower depths where inflator flow rates are not so critical and reestablishing positive buoyancy at 60' or so or even starting with zero vertical velocity because you're both on the bottom is not an issue.

If you have a model of BC that has a limited to moderate inflator flow rate, reestablishing neutrality for 2 divers going down fast at 140' may well be impossible.

And just because you have a high capacity wing doesn't necessarily mean the inflator is correctly dimensioned for it. My large wing has the slowest inflator out of all those I've ever used. In contrast my BC that I use for most of my diving has a very high fill rate.

 

[Cave Diver]

I don't think it was suicide, I think she was struggling with a pre-existing condition that got much worse at the wrong time. It may be that she felt this might be her last chance ever to dive, her husband was concerned for her safety and they found a compromise in hiring a DM to be her buddy "just in case". From what I was told by a friend of hers, she rarely took no for an answer and her strength of personality was high.

Whether or not the DM acted appropriately is another matter.

Any idea if the DM/Dive Op was informed of this prior to diving?

 

[ScubaSteve]

I really hope we do not get into the whole debate again but miketsp....you need to remember that a DM should be equipped in such a manner that they can correct problems. A BC or wing with sufficient lift to get a troubled negative diver up is one and sufficient weight to keep a positive diver down is another.

BTW...this comes from a non-dive PRO so take it for what it is worth

 

[shoredivr]

Clarification: it IS speculation that she had a stroke on the dive, it is not speculation that she had a stroke in recent months.

Thanks, Jayjoans that's what I was referring to.

*edit* Thanks for the additional information in you post.

 

[mikemath]

I really hope we do not get into the whole debate again but miktsp....you need to remember that a DM should be equipped in such a manner that they can correct problems. A BC or wing with sufficient lift to get a troubled negative diver up is one and sufficient weight to keep a positive diver down is another.

Agreed, preventative measures are always better. However, in an emergency, you only have the resources on hand and you must do the best you can with them. I didn't read miketsp's post as implying that this absolves the DM of responsibility. However, a lot of people have been basically saying that the failure of the DM was a failure to act effectively. Miketsp raises the possibility that the failure may have been to prepare properly, which made effective action difficult or impossible. On one hand, we could say it doesn't matter which, since a diver is dead as a result regardless of cause. However, we're all trying to take away some knowledge and knowing all the possible factors is important. I personally hadn't considered inflator rate at depth to be a major factor before, but it certainly could be the case. Especially when new divers are often weighted slightly negative, added to the lower suit displacement from being at 140'. A slow inflator or small BC could have made it impossible to fix the situation. Is there any evidence that the DM tried to fin up with the diver in addition to fixing the inflator?

 

[ScubaSteve]

I suppose I can see what you are saying mikemath (and also miketsp). I read it differently but can possibly see that side. I am not saying that the DM did or did not do anything though. Just that I see how the context of the post could be taken differently.

But do remember, while the DM would be inflating their BC/Wing through what might be an undersized hose, they would also be kicking like heck upwards so there already is a counter force to the sinking.....any additional lift from the BC/Wing would be on top of that. So, impossible is something that I think would only be "achieved" simply because of the late depth that this all started and the possible "personal maximum safe rescue depth" that the DM might have in their mind.

 

[Web Monkey]

Once you're at 140' descending fast you really need to start pushing air in fast to get back to neutrality because of the increasing bladder compaction with depth. It was mentioned that the DM was female and petite so she may well have have been diving a small female style BC with limited lift even when full.

If your inflator can't keep up with your descent rate, it's either broken, incorrectly designed or you're massively overweighted.

However in any case, that was not the problem here, since the DM went down, had some sort of contact with the diver, then ascended. This indicates that the DM's equipment was working properly.

If the DM had the problem you describe, this would have been a double fatality.

Terry

 

[pilot fish]

Let me make sure I undetrstand what you are saying, are you saying that a diver should put some air in thier BC when decending at or near 140 ft because they might not be able to get enough air in the BC, due to ambient water pressure, to lift them faster enough if they need to ascend quickly? This is the first I'm hearing of this?

Wow, I just managed to read through this whole tortuous thread.

One of the things that strikes me as a little strange is that various experienced posters made reference to "grab the tank valve and ascend with positive buoyancy".

This isn't always as easy as stated. It's quite probable that the DM had already deflated (at least partially) in order to swim down fast to the victim.
Once you're at 140' descending fast you really need to start pushing air in fast to get back to neutrality because of the increasing bladder compaction with depth. It was mentioned that the DM was female and petite so she may well have have been diving a small female style BC with limited lift even when full.
Over the years I've used BCs with extremely varying inflation rates when you press the inflator button and I've read various accident reports where divers who left inflation too late were unable to get enough air back into their BC fast enough to overcome increasing ambient pressure and continued to descend.
Those of us that regularly dive deeper know that you feed in air as you go down to control descent rate and don't let things get out of control.

Rescue courses are normally carried out at shallower depths where inflator flow rates are not so critical and reestablishing positive buoyancy at 60' or so or even starting with zero vertical velocity because you're both on the bottom is not an issue.

If you have a model of BC that has a limited to moderate inflator flow rate, reestablishing neutrality for 2 divers going down fast at 140' may well be impossible.

And just because you have a high capacity wing doesn't necessarily mean the inflator is correctly dimensioned for it. My large wing has the slowest inflator out of all those I've ever used. In contrast my BC that I use for most of my diving has a very high fill rate.