New thread started with video embedded: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...924-bahamas-close-call-video.html#post4491122
Bahamas: Missing Female Diver
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New thread started with video embedded: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...924-bahamas-close-call-video.html#post4491122
alohagal
Contributor
Okay...back to my original thought. Thanks for a heart thumping video. I think it will help many divers...novice and otherwise.
And the music was spot on!!
OP
danclem
Contributor
Just returned home from an extended Bahamas/Florida Keys photo shoot, and read the posts made the past few days. At the risk of getting back to the original thread (btw, the video is a must see), here are a couple of clarifying points that some folks asked about.
1.) To my knowledge there were two non-Stuart Cove individuals with Rescue or higher certifications: a police officer from Montreal and myself. After getting the OK from the skipper we helped with a surface search. There were two individuals already in the water, one without a mask or snorkel. He turned out to be Radha's husband, and probably should not have been in the water looking for his wife (see below).
2.) Not everyone made a second dive on the "Bond" set. The wife of the New York couple had trouble equalizing on the first dive, and I stayed behind to both write down what had happened and to try to make sure the remaining crew was doing OK. The skipper was very composed but quite upset. I am not sure that most of the recreational divers fully realized that there was a 99% chance someone had just died.
3.) It appears Radha had a stroke approximately a month before the Bahamas trip. If it was a mini-stroke (TIA), then my medical friends have indicated there are a large percentage of individuals who have additional strokes within the next few years. Even a mini-stroke can disable/confuse individuals for several minutes to a day.
4.) During the debrief and interview with the insurance company accident investigator we were asked if we saw any errors or improvements that could be made. I noted three, neither of which would have had any impact on Radha's survivability.
This is also probably the proper forum to remind divers that operators are not responsible for determining whether or not someone is medically fit to dive. This is the diver's responsibility. I just rechecked with PADI, and here is an extract from their response:
Dan
1.) To my knowledge there were two non-Stuart Cove individuals with Rescue or higher certifications: a police officer from Montreal and myself. After getting the OK from the skipper we helped with a surface search. There were two individuals already in the water, one without a mask or snorkel. He turned out to be Radha's husband, and probably should not have been in the water looking for his wife (see below).
2.) Not everyone made a second dive on the "Bond" set. The wife of the New York couple had trouble equalizing on the first dive, and I stayed behind to both write down what had happened and to try to make sure the remaining crew was doing OK. The skipper was very composed but quite upset. I am not sure that most of the recreational divers fully realized that there was a 99% chance someone had just died.
3.) It appears Radha had a stroke approximately a month before the Bahamas trip. If it was a mini-stroke (TIA), then my medical friends have indicated there are a large percentage of individuals who have additional strokes within the next few years. Even a mini-stroke can disable/confuse individuals for several minutes to a day.
4.) During the debrief and interview with the insurance company accident investigator we were asked if we saw any errors or improvements that could be made. I noted three, neither of which would have had any impact on Radha's survivability.
A.) There were no binoculars on board. We were fortunate in that the seas were calm and there was very little current. It is still difficult to see a head or waving arms several hundred yards away, even with light chop and small swells.
B.) I made an error when we conducted the surface search by not asking divers on board to visually keep track of the four swimmers (two buddy pairs)in the water. We were working in pairs, but I should have made this request.
C.) I don't know the circumstances behind Radha's husband Larry entering the water to look for his missing wife, but I don't think he should have gone back into the water after boarding the boat at the conclusion of the dive. On the surface search he and I worked up-current so it would be easier for him to get back to the boat, but he tired quite quickly, which is understandable, and was rescue swum back to the boat. This could have turned into a second significant incident quite easily.
As mentioned in earlier posts, my "insta-buddy" and I were following the lead dive master, so I have nothing to add about the Radha and the DM's actions. I had a good experience with Stuart Cove's operation and will dive with them again.B.) I made an error when we conducted the surface search by not asking divers on board to visually keep track of the four swimmers (two buddy pairs)in the water. We were working in pairs, but I should have made this request.
C.) I don't know the circumstances behind Radha's husband Larry entering the water to look for his missing wife, but I don't think he should have gone back into the water after boarding the boat at the conclusion of the dive. On the surface search he and I worked up-current so it would be easier for him to get back to the boat, but he tired quite quickly, which is understandable, and was rescue swum back to the boat. This could have turned into a second significant incident quite easily.
This is also probably the proper forum to remind divers that operators are not responsible for determining whether or not someone is medically fit to dive. This is the diver's responsibility. I just rechecked with PADI, and here is an extract from their response:
While dive students are required to complete a medical history questionnaire before participating in any PADI Courses involving in-water training, PADI diving facilities are not required to medically screen all of their customers. Divers learn during their training that, after certification, they must always ensuring that they are medically fit for diving before doing so. This is the diver's responsibility, rather than the dive center's.
Hope this helps clarify a couple of points and some lessons learned.
Dan
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Based on subsequent reports (my computer ws screaming at me; I didn't properly decompress), that's exactly what it was...
DocIndyDiver
Contributor
Recent history of TIA/stroke! They (her husband was involved in the decision to dive) were either naive to, or disregarded the danger of this. This woman should of been doing nothing more than a leisurely snorkel trip...maybe. TIA/strokes rarely are a stand alone health condition. They are usually the result of many other conditions such as diabetes and heart disease, also concerns with diving. I am sorry for their loss but, this unnecessary incident caused everyone involved a great deal of pain. I wish them all no permanent emotional scars.
It is tragic that Mr Wood lost his wife in this way. If she had a recent stroke and they decided to dive anyway they made a tragic and ill thought out choice. Of course combatitive behavior is a know feature of brain injury. Poor decision making are consistent with both brain injury and Narcosis.
Even more tragic is that the DM did not come to work that day knowing that she was going to be paired up with someone who should not be diving. It is so easy to point fingers of blame at the DM but this tragic sequence of events started before they got on the boat. All anyone can do is their best. I sure wouldn't want to be in the position of the DM....
ItsBruce
Contributor
I have been giving a lot of thought to the question of what lengths ought a DM go to in order to rescue another diver, even if that other diver is the DM's buddy. I do not yet have clarity. However, I have two observations. First, a good DM should stand a good chance of preventing the dive from becoming one where a diver in his or her charge needs rescuing. I do not think that a DM must be able to prevent it, only that the DM should stand a good chance of doing so. Second, for my friends who proclaim that if they have to go after a descending diver, someone is coming up, while I applaud the sentiment, I am concerned that such a proclamation is unwise, unsafe, and possibly the result of TMT. I would hope I would give it my best shot, but I hope I would have the good sense to determine if my best shot is not going to be enough and to then give up.
Edited to add: IMHO, a DM or an instructor is not the guarantor of a diver's safety.
Edited to add: IMHO, a DM or an instructor is not the guarantor of a diver's safety.
Hey Dan, thanks for that info, and it's great to push this thread back on track. There were a few other questions that were not fully resolved and I wonder if you might provide your take if you have anything to add.
First, we have heard both that the DM was hired to work with multiple people, and that she was hired specifically to buddy with Mrs. Wood. Can you clarify this at all?
Second, we have heard that Mr. Wood was diving with a friend as his buddy. This hasn't been refuted thus far. We have also heard that the dive split up with Mrs. Wood and her DM buddy, as well as one other couple, lagging behind and separated from the dive leader and your group. Can you confirm that Mr. Wood and his buddy were with you and the dive leader during this incident?
Third, there has been discussion about the circumstances of the hiring of the private DM. Do you have knowledge of whether the DM was hired by choice, or required by the dive shop? In either case, did you learn what the reason was for the private DM to be hired?
Finally, was Mrs. Wood 50-ish or 68? We've heard both and 68 seems more likely bsed upon the retirement, but I don't believe this was ever settled.
Sorry to lay it all on you, but there's not too many other information sources on this one.
Thanks!
First, we have heard both that the DM was hired to work with multiple people, and that she was hired specifically to buddy with Mrs. Wood. Can you clarify this at all?
Second, we have heard that Mr. Wood was diving with a friend as his buddy. This hasn't been refuted thus far. We have also heard that the dive split up with Mrs. Wood and her DM buddy, as well as one other couple, lagging behind and separated from the dive leader and your group. Can you confirm that Mr. Wood and his buddy were with you and the dive leader during this incident?
Third, there has been discussion about the circumstances of the hiring of the private DM. Do you have knowledge of whether the DM was hired by choice, or required by the dive shop? In either case, did you learn what the reason was for the private DM to be hired?
Finally, was Mrs. Wood 50-ish or 68? We've heard both and 68 seems more likely bsed upon the retirement, but I don't believe this was ever settled.
Sorry to lay it all on you, but there's not too many other information sources on this one.
Thanks!
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I was one of those people, but do want to say that it was not an open-ended commitment to descend to unlimited depth; it was in reference to the point where the DM first made contact with the diver, which I believe was around 100'.
At that point, a rescue doesn't require superhuman strength or courage. Even at second contact @ 140' or so, a rescue would have not been a huge deal.
Anything much past that would require considerable thought if all I had was an 80.
Terry
jackleedy
Guest
I joined recently after diving at SC in May. We Dove 3 days including the shark dive. There was a diver that had a private DM on almost all of our dives, because he was mentally slow. I couldn't help but be amazed at him and all of his different DM. They were always close by, but not controlling him, because he was capable certified diver. He dove the Wall and the shark dive. Something still just does not add up. I was a US Navy rescue swimmer and what I might do in a situation may or may not be different. One of the things they pound into you is that you are the one that is on scene with the only information that important...what can I do and still survive. My heart goes out to anyone put in this situation and I hope they know they did everything that they could. Ultimately we are responsible for ourselves and our families that depend on us.
Jack
Jack
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