Bashing Each other, It is not necessary. I seem to have done it then I apologize.

[maggs_the]

Might I suggest news://rec.scuba ?

those guys know how to play! :11:

 

[diverbrian]

...at work who epitomizes the attitude some of us are complaining about. Personally, I think the guy is an arrogant whiner.

But, I will give the devil his due. I try to listen to much of what he has to say, because he has a point. As the saying goes, the message can be diluted by the way that it is delivered and normally this guy is correct. It is simply that if there are ten ways to same the same thing, he will pick the way to say it that rubs the most people the wrong way.

I can see that the culture that you are used to probably has little room for the "blunt" way to say things. Sometimes there are more polite ways to say things. Many of the people here are engineers/tech/military types who aren't particularly adept at finding or looking for those ways. It doesn't change the content of what they say that much. These are still experienced divers.

My buoyancy control improved immensely with my DM program. But part of my attitude is that I kick myself if I am ever satisfied with where it is at. I learned that from a very humble instructor who is a cave diver. It can always get better. Oh, and Jenny's comment about not having a dive buddy bring her up early.... she has only been the low on air person on a couple of occassions that I am aware of. She has gills surgically implanted and hasn't told anyone....<tease>

Personally, if I am not in the mood for that, I will move most of my attention to other less "vehement" parts of the board (The NDI clubs portion comes to mind) than the Basic Scuba Discussions that I normally read a great deal of. I am also guilty of not reading much in there as so many of those threads are actually rehashes of topics discussed until the horse got whipped to death three months ago that I don't feel like opening the circle back up. But, that is no slight intended. I just don't always feel like being in the fray that can develop in some of those areas. Sometimes the internet is too impersonal a medium and it makes it too easy to say something in a way that we wouldn't face to face.

But, this board has a great bunch. The flames are actually quite well controlled for what they could be.

 

[Hank49]

DM, how I was basically a foll and would look like an idiiot in front of anyone I dive with, how basically I shouldn't be diving and learning to get better by becoming a DM and Instructor someday

I read the posts you're referring to..."becoming a dive master too soon". I admire your spirit and desire. You'll probably make a very good DM/Instructor because of your desire to learn. And, the number of dives is important but not the "be all end all" measuring stick. A diver with 50 or even 100 dives isn't necesarrily better than a diver with only 25. Some just learn faster and are more experienced and comfortable in water.....say, someone who grew up in Hawaii surfing and skin diving his/her whole life with only 20 dives (but, in open ocean) compared to someone who grew up in Wyoming (no offense to anyone from there) whose only experience in the water was to do the dive course and dive, but has 100 dives in quarries etc etc. I know who I would rather dive with in strong tidal current or rough water.....
I got blasted a bit for admitting to deep air diving. Never mind those folks. Don't let them bum you out. Just dive and have fun. Hank

 

[chickdiver]

I am a 5'3" 135lb female technical dive instructor. I have not read any of your other threads, but this particular post caught my eye. With your limited experience you have NO BIUSINESS WHATSOEVER pursueing anything beyond Rescue at this point. Your goal should be to nail the basics (ie bouyancy control) and gain experience and a solid understanding of what you are doing. Classes to not make experience, DIVING, under varied environments and with different buddies builds expereince, and there is no substitute for it. As for being made to rescue "linebacker looking guys" in your Rescue class, look around you in any class you are in- what is the majority of the population? Perhaps people bigger than you? As a diver, and especially as a DM or Instructor you will be responsible for many people larger than you, you'd better know how and be capable of performing a rescue and an egress with them, otherwise you have NO BUSINESS BEING THERE.

A word of advice- stop whining about everything and people wont come off so hard on you. Sorry if you dislike my particular tone, but I stopped sugarcoating things long ago.

 

[rmediver2002]

Sometimes the internet is too impersonal a medium and it makes it too easy to say something in a way that we wouldn't face to face.

One other disadvantage to the internet as a communication medium is that some people are tempted to recreate themselves or misrepresent who they are or what they have done for some imagined status.

More often then not, these are the same folks who seem to be obsessed with short and non-sensical posts never really saying anything... (I assume to gain status among the group with a high post count?)

When these individuals attempt to represent themselves as members of a profession or group that is important to or respected by me personally I take offense...

These are the only instances I recall in which I have directly challenged what has been said by another member of this board and it has only occured twice within the last two years...

 

[The Kraken]

RME,
Have you considered a position as an ambassador ? ? ? ; )

 

[Natasha]

The Kracken:
You beat me to it.
I also think what Jeff said makes the most sense.
I hope we didn't loose a member over all of this. Hopefully she will ring in shortly.

 

[TCDiver1]

I can see that the culture that you are used to probably has little room for the "blunt" way to say things. Sometimes there are more polite ways to say things. Many of the people here are engineers/tech/military types who aren't particularly adept at finding or looking for those ways. It doesn't change the content of what they say that much. These are still experienced divers.

Brian,

My attitude on things of this nature has changed over the years. I used to suscribe to the kick a$$ and take names "rude" approach. As time has gone on, i have found it to not be the best way to get your point across to most people. I try to use it as a last resort only.

I really can't believe the number of people who seem to think that it is an acceptable first approach over trying to respectfully reason with people. I mean this isn't the Marine Corps and if i wanted to be treated that way, i would have stayed in and got my daily ration of that "method." And the Marine Corps really has that "method" down pat!

In my book its simple really, treat people like you would like to be treated. Just like your momma taught ya. I don't know many that can honestly say they like to be treated rudely. Well, okay, maybe some of you on here are into that sort of thing.

On the DM thing i don't see the problem. The candidate still has to meet all the prerequisites before they get the card. If they aren't ready after 60, or 100, or 1000+ dives they aren't getting the card from me.

The DM course is full of great information which can be beneficial to most divers. Having the proper attitude, to not bite off more than you can chew, is part of the training. Again, if they don't have the right attitude, they don't get the card until they do. No problem that i can see.

I understand what people are trying to say, in that experience is the best teacher for DM. I dove for over ten years before i did my DM and it was beneficial. But i now wish i would have done it sooner.

I had the hard-a$$ attitude of why did i need more than my BOW card for all those years. I didn't know why until i took the course. I now believe i would have benefited more from those first ten years had i taken the DM course earlier.

I'm not saying DM is for everybody early in their diving careers but in my case i believe it would have been beneficial. The one way to find out is to take the course.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I am a 5'3" 135lb female technical dive instructor. I have not read any of your other threads, but this particular post caught my eye. With your limited experience you have NO BIUSINESS WHATSOEVER pursueing anything beyond Rescue at this point. Your goal should be to nail the basics (ie bouyancy control) and gain experience and a solid understanding of what you are doing. Classes to not make experience, DIVING, under varied environments and with different buddies builds expereince, and there is no substitute for it. As for being made to rescue "linebacker looking guys" in your Rescue class, look around you in any class you are in- what is the majority of the population? Perhaps people bigger than you? As a diver, and especially as a DM or Instructor you will be responsible for many people larger than you, you'd better know how and be capable of performing a rescue and an egress with them, otherwise you have NO BUSINESS BEING THERE.

A word of advice- stop whining about everything and people wont come off so hard on you. Sorry if you dislike my particular tone, but I stopped sugarcoating things long ago.

I hope some of our members read Chickdivers post and take it to heart.

In todays culture it seems to be unacceptable to tell any one that they're wrong no matter how nice it's done. The fact is though that some are wrong and some are right whether we like it or not.

All the "Im ok. Your ok" touchy feely make every one feel good marketing junk doesn't mean you can teach, supervise or even get them back at all.

Maybe it isn't hard to become a DM or an instructor and that might seem cool when you're out card collecting and patting yourself on the back but then one day you find yourself in the water in the middle of a bonified nightmare. The card pushers won't be there to make you feel good then. You'll either do it or you won't.

It's more fun and safer for every one to do the work up front.

Well, I'm probably wrong cuz you won't hear that in many dive shops. LOL

 

[Uncle Pug]

I'm not saying DM is for everybody early in their diving careers but in my case i believe it would have been beneficial. The one way to find out is to take the course.

I've heard folks say the same thing for DIRf.