Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[BDSC]

and their attachment to electronic devices for entertainment instead of the outdoors.

To take that to the next level, I can envision a day where folks sit in their recliner, put on some sort of virtual head hear, and have the dive of their life and never even get wet. We are almost there now. I saw something similar at DEMA in it's early stages. Shouldn't take long to refine.

 

[drrich2]

Here's a thought for another thread that'd be an interesting different perspective; why should customers go to LDSs? I don't mean 'should' in a mean-spirited way. Aside from air or nitrox fills, once you've got OW, AOW & Nitrox (maybe Rescue) cert.s, and your 'starter gear set,' what keeps you going back...when online is as cheap or cheaper, arrives at your door or workplace instead of having to go to the shop to pick it up, you can get objective reviews/opinions from a range of fellow divers online (who have no vested interest in what you buy), so why go to the LDS?

1.) If they have a dive quarry (the LDS here does), that's a good reason.
2.) Early in your diving, to join group trips. But after a few, you can book your own. Caribbean dive travel usually isn't all that demanding. You can go with a local group after that, but you don't need to.

What other reasons do you guys see?

I think the answer to the question 'Why should customers go to LDSs?' might go aways to answering why some are having trouble.

Richard.

 

[rhwestfall]

The 4-6" stack of unretrieved c-cards (OW/AOW being the lion's share) shows me that the sport has become a "bucket list" item, common in our society. LDS has 1-3 trips to warm water annually that sell out, but that is a small number of divers, and IMHO, the cost they want is unreasonable as I have done it on my own for significantly less. Local diving takes skill and commitment, with wreck diving being the majority of the opportunities. You have to go deep(er) to see anything, and that isn't a 1-2 times a year market. Here on the Eastern Great Lakes, the decline has resulted in 75% loss of the shops. As Trace said, walk into a shop today, and it isn't a pretty atmosphere with the fighting/slander you get dragged into as the margins are so thin....

It took me 2+ years to find a local instructor to do an AN/DP class, and I know the guy lost his shirt teaching it as there was just two of us in the class.

 

[Diver Dave1]

In my region, too many shops overall for the diving population in this area.

 

[Ghost Diver #]

I think drrick2 has a very good point. Other then tank fills I have no need to go to my LDS. Whenever I'm in the market for new gear I always price them out but find I save significantly by using online shops and I receive what I looking for much faster. So I guess I'm part of them problem.

 

[CT-Rich]

...

It wouldn't promote the brand very well if trace was going around doing all the things they tell people they should never do. Although it would be highly amusing.

Ha.... I was a public school teacher, it was both amusing and easy to do... the hard part was remembering to not cuss in school.

I am not a shop owner, so to a certain degree, I am talking through my hat. The loss of market for diving is probably due to a bunch of things. 30 years ago their were relatively few adventure sports. Today the population is more sedentary, lower disposable income with classes of entertainment that didn't even exist 30 years ago. No one had 60 inch TVs. I spend $290 a month on Internet and cell service alone. These days you can spend insane amounts of money not only on a bicycle, but the apparel you wear when you ride one. The same is true for most sports. diving 30 years ago would not have required as much stuff as it does today. Travel has become so much easier and cheaper that people can be vacation divers or vacation skiers or back packers or what ever.....

Earnings have not been going up, so the number of people that have disposable income for diving has been sliding for decades. Looking at the recent tax bill, almost all the money goes to the small sliver of the population that already had effectively unlimited resources for adventure sports. If Ivanka wanted to learn to scuba dive, this bill would not have changed her ability to do it.

Concerns about long term costs have played a role, colleges and insurance have risen far faster than incomes so they are also taking a share of the disposable income. I am not going to be able to rely on my pension money for my later years, so money goes from my paycheck into my retirement and kids college fund (and not as much as there should be).

Competition from the internet is cutting margins also. EVERYBODY price shops online before they buy. I am sure that some of the time you look at the LeisurePro ads and just click "add to shopping cart" without even checking to see if your local shop can compete because the prices are low and it is super easy. By the way, I actually went into the LeisurePro shop in NYC and they were no less annoying or more courteous than other shops I have been into; I was truly unimpressed and I would not have shopped there if they were my local shop. My local shop is much better at giving me a deal, but they can't compete at rock bottom with everything all the time, but a lot of prices are fixed by manufacturers so the online bottom will not be that different from what the stores actually can offer, if you take the time to ask.

Diving is never going to have the market share that skiing does because there are so many summer activities that compete for dollars. Look at how many people have fishing boats, motorcycles, jet-skis, kayaks and sailboats parked in their yards. As new activities are created the competition for that slice of pie gets smaller. Not to mention one good storm will screw the pooch for several weeks of diving in a relatively short season (at least in my area).

 

[falcon125]

People want to go scuba diving
Not be scuba divers

 

[KDAD]

Scuba has a high barrier to entry. I have to take a series of classes to learn and if the OW is done locally it means diving in cold quarry water. There is the few hundreds of dollars for the class. Then there is the cost of gear. All of which can be bought elsewhere while on vacation. The sport itself takes a fair amount of skill, learning and effort that many are not willing or able to expend.

All of which equate to what falcon125 said:

People want to go scuba diving
Not be scuba divers

 

[EastEndDiver]

Why? Does GUE forbid their instructors from solo diving at all, even when not teaching?

Richard.

Can't they just wear a Groucho Marks disguise (you know glasses and mustache) and do it incognito ?

 

[RayfromTX]

The shops I'm familiar with are designed around a business model that caters to people getting trained for a dive vacation that they may do once or twice. They know they will see almost none of these people as repeat customers. They supplement their income with swim lessons for kids in the pool. Support for scuba divers that want to continue in the sport is weak but that isn't the worst part.

If I want to dive often and locally I will need fills and gear. The fills will require two trips to the shop for every dive trip. Either you pick up the tanks and return them empty or you drop off your tanks and pick them up full ish. The gear you want will be cheaper and more convenient online and it will be more likely to be ordered correctly if you place the order because you care. I have never ordered from a dive shop and had the order be placed correctly the first time. The same is true for bike shops. It is just easier to order it myself.

I ordered a wetsuit and the shop employee told me I should order a ML instead of the MT size that I thought would work better. When it came in it was too short and I indeed needed the MT. I had paid more to support the dive shop instead of ordering it online. I told the shop employee that we would need to swap it out and she said "I'm sorry, there are no returns on special orders". Liesurepro would have paid the return shipping and saved me three trips across town to the dive shop. It doesn't make me mad that they act this way. It just makes me feel sorry for them and teaches me to have no sense of loyalty or feelings of guilt when I order online. I told the manager my point of view but I'm certain others just think they have been ripped off and go do something else.

The only chance they have is if they have charismatic leaders in the shop that build a community of dive friends or if they build a thriving online presence that compliments their brick and mortar.