Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[ScottFL78]

Most Americans are thrifty/cheap and the internet is cheaper. Most don't think about supporting their LDS other than air fills, which alone will not keep them in business. I have watched potential new divers go into a shop, try on gear and take pictures of it. They left without buying anything and I bet you that they went online and purchased it. In Orlando we must have about 5-6 dive shops that are all within about 25 minutes of each other so the competition is pretty stiff. I prefer to buy from a brick and mortar business but many local stores don't want to stock all of the items that we want and they always say "But I can order it for you!" Yeah and I can get it cheaper and faster online. I still always try to support the dive shops because Amazon can't fill my tanks for me or service my gear.

 

[Kharon]

Most of the money I spend at my LDS is for air fills, visual inspections and hydro's. I can get the hydro's done faster and cheaper if I take the tanks in myself, but since it's only once in 5 years I consider it a "donation" to the shop. I also occasionally rent a tank or two.

Since I'm old and the local diving is no great shakes, my personal tanks are small - 50, 30, 27. I use them to practice/develop new skills and to pick up trash. Whan I'm diving with NYSDA I'll rent one or more tanks so I'm not heading back to the boat before everyone else reaches turnaround pressure. I also fill my pony off an 80cf at the beginning of each season.

When I need/want something relatively inexpensive I'll pay the long price at my LDS. Unfortunately, that's not very often because I've got pretty much everything I can think of. Also, I'm old. With few diving years left I'm not inclined to buy much additional gear.

I think the biggest reason that I haven't purchased much from my LDS is that I'm pretty specific in what I want. I research and decide on a specific brand/item. Most often they don't carry it, even at a higher price. If they order for me it takes much longer because they only order when they have enough items to place an order. When I order myself I get it right away.

I am hoping to go on a group trip with them. I dive solo and can/do arrange my own trips. However, they have a ton of experience going to Coz and it's worth the extra money to have them make the arrangements and take care of details.

I really think that their biggest problem is that the diving in central NY is mostly linited to Lake George and pretty much sux from shore and there are few charter boats operating. Dutch Springs is a bit of a haul and not worth the drive unless it's for a few days. Other nearby lakes have really bad vis. If there were more diving options nearby I think they would do better.

 

[Saniflush]

The only chance they have is if they have charismatic leaders in the shop that build a community of dive friends

This describes mine

 

[tbone1004]

basically echoing what is above, poor business practices are #1 that I say, failure to evolve is #2.

Poor business practices are really what kills me with a lot of them and you see it in Cave Country, coast of NC, and various local shops. Pitching "us vs. them" does not work, and it was really bad in Raleigh when I lived there and there were I think 6 active dive shops at the time in that city, with 1, yes 1, diving location within 50 miles.
One was ancient and I think it was just on cruise control since the owners were retirement aged and had already gotten their nut but that shop was depressing to go into.... one is Gypsy/Airtech which is the best of the lot especially with their pool, one was a tech diving shop that went under when the owner died, another is a tech diving shop that used to be active on this board but has alienated a lot of people in the last year, another just burned down but will be rebuilding and they had a dual business with boats and what not, and another one is just there.
Raleigh is a big city, with TONS of money but it's not that big, and it's not like it's a diving mecca with people coming in and out. The most stable shop stays stable because it owns AirTech which is probably the largest scuba repair shop in the country with I think 8 full-time repair techs *full time, with benefits, do nothing but repair scuba gear*, and it also has a heated pool that stays slammed with swimming lessons year-round. Dive shop is part of that and is doing very well, but the owner has said it alone wouldn't be able to keep that shop open so they have put more emphasis on the pool for swimming lessons *pretty much every kid takes swimming lessons and there is a non-stop turnover with kids*, and they have also started doing a lot of service for other dive shops who send their regs to them for repair. They have adapted, they have good business practices, and they are doing as well as they really can be given state of the industry as a whole.

In Greenville where I am now, there is 1 dive shop, in a much smaller city, but with a LOT of disposable income. Owner is a tech instructor through TDI, but does mostly recreational courses with new divers in the area. He seems to have a good group of local divers that come back and his shop is pretty small, but does well and is stable. If he had big competition come in from someone committed in the area, I think he'd be in trouble with the younger crowd.

The failure to evolve is an industry thing. People don't pay MSRP in brick and mortar stores anymore, they just don't. Dive Shops trying to sell gear at MSRP, and then the customer having to pay tax on top of that just isn't going to work. If you can't/won't meet the price of what someone else is selling the same product for, I have to have real good motivation to buy from you, ESPECIALLY if I have to pay sales tax on top of that. Now that can come from various other free stuff, fills/discounted training etc. It can also come from me really not liking another shop where I will go out of my way to avoid certain shops even if they have the cheapest price because I don't want to support one of them.
The industry and the shop owners have to realize that they have to compete with the likes of LeisurePro, Dive Gear Express, etc. Many of them were on the front end of it and are doing well, Northeast Scuba Supply, Dive Right in Scuba, Scubatoys, Cave Adventurers, etc. They have an online presence, they price-match to get your business, they will talk to you and give you proper advice etc. That's worth a lot.


Now, my thing. I understand that I am an outlier, I understand that I am not a profitable customer for an LDS because I have my own fill station *ironically stemmed from my lack of faith in most dive shops*, buy most of my gear used and what I don't buy used I get direct from the manufacturers, etc. What I can do though is help direct other divers to dive shops and those divers are profitable for them. I really think that the UK has it figured out though with the "club" mentality and I think if a lot of dive shops started moving towards creating that type of environment combined with best-practices for running a business, then they'd get a lot more traffic

 

[KevinNM]

Why? Does GUE forbid their instructors from solo diving at all, even when not teaching?

Richard.

Yes. You have to agree to not solo dive as part of being an instructor for GUE.

 

[Diesel_Diver]

I have 3 shops roughly within a 100 mile radius. One is really only part time I think mainly to finance their own diving. Closest one tho I have bought almost all my gear at. Pricing is very competitive even with “ leisure pro”. But being Canadian also leaves a high shipping fee and currency exchange on the big US online shops.
That being said, I think the best way to increase business is to promote an active local diving community. Although I do get great service from my LDS ,they don’t do a lot to promote this. We have great salt water (colder temps 40f) shore and boat diving locally!

 

[boulderjohn]

Lots of good comments, and I suspect most of them are in play and combining to cause the problem.

According to DEMA statistics, I live in a state that is always within the top 1-3 in the number of divers per capita in the U.S.A. Most of my comments refer to that local scene.

too many other competing activities that suck money away from diving

Both of my children have spent as much money as an avid scuba diver would on their equipment, but they have put all that money into fun activities that were not available to me years ago. I can't blame them. I got certified in anticipation of a single vacation trip to Cozumel. If I hadn't taken that trip, I might have chosen other ways to spend my money, too.

Local diving might be less appealing.

In my area, the best diving is in a reservoir with a maximum depth of about 35 feet and standard visibility of about 10 feet. If anyone gets too close to the bottom, that visibility will go to zero. At least a 7mm suit is needed in the summer. It is not open in the winter. For my "local" diving, I drive 6 hours and live in a motel.

Aside from air or nitrox fills,

With the local diving being as I described, 99% of the tanks filled by the local shops are for their own use in instruction. I am pretty much the only person who gets personal fills at my local shop. If local shops go out of business, I will need to buy my own compressor. I have already had to buy my own booster.

the cost they want is unreasonable as I have done it on my own for significantly less. Local diving takes skill and commitment,

Dive shop trips cost considerably more than you can do it on your own. Considerably more.

These days you can spend insane amounts of money not only on a bicycle, but the apparel you wear when you ride one

One of my technical students indicated he could get a full setup of technical gear for much less than he paid for his last bicycle.

Scuba has a high barrier to entry. I have to take a series of classes to learn and if the OW is done locally it means diving in cold quarry water.

And yet there are people who regularly post on ScubaBoard that the barrier to entry is far too low and should be raised considerably.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

LOL, John! I tried living in Castle Rock when my girlfriend at the time was a flight attendant with Western Pacific. The Denver and Colorado Springs areas have a captive audience for reservoir diving and long weekend "local" trips for sure.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

All good stuff.

I see the number one thing killing shops is online competition.
Most shops in California pay huge rents, huge insurance, higher wages to compensate for cost of living, and CA also has the highest taxes and the highest workers comp. All this adds up. It becomes very difficult for them to try and match online prices, and many times they can’t because they are bound by MAP pricing.
And then there’s the 8.5% sales tax, used to be almost 10% in some areas.
The best they can hope for are rich customers that want to learn to dive, and then pay full retail on a full set of gear to go to the tropics on a highly marked up shop sponsored trip. The customer also has to be oblivious to the online world of diving.
The shops rely on a constant flow of these types of customers to fit the old business model and keep them going. Good luck with that.

All this is just part of it.

 

[tbone1004]

@Eric Sedletzky the online shops are bound by the same MAP agreements as the local shops, but there is nothing that is preventing them from selling below MAP, the A=advertised is very important, it's not a minimum selling price, just the lowest they can advertise.

There is nothing stopping those shops from becoming the next Dive Right in Scuba, Cave Adventurers, or Northeast Scuba Supply. They are all full time, local dive shops where you can go in, get fills, get gear fixed, etc etc. What is stopping them is the failure to adapt and poor business practices in a modern world.