Boat captain encouraging wreck penetration

[TMHeimer]

Hypotheticals and semantics on hearsay.

Encouragement.

That is one novice diver's perception of a pre-dive briefing.

If a DM said it's a nice wreck to penetrate, check it out, and if that qualifies as encouragement, and the DM goes on to describe the environment, all this is within the obvious context of each diver's experience and skill.

Don't want to penetrate? Don't. Don't want to go deep? Don't. Don't want to go solo? Don't.

This is not scuba theory; it's common sense.

If a diver does not know how to dive within their limits, they have no business being on a wreck dive in cold water with bad visibility.

No one is going to force a diver to do anything. You don't even have to get in the water if you don't want to.

I agree with all you say--when it applies to ME, and divers with common sense. As I said, as a DM I have seen a select few taking OW with very little life experience in water. The odd one of those managed to squeeze through on skills and get certified. Some of those MAY dive 6 months later on a Wreck charter in the Great Lakes. I guess we just disagree that the captain was wrong in his advice. I agree with the post saying that he/she wouldn't want to give advice or "encouragement" that would contribute to an idiot's death. There are other ways to do it--such as "I encourage you to penetrate this wreck IF YOU ARE QUALIFIED and have the equipment--reel, line, lights, etc.-- to do so". Doesn't seem that hard to cover those bases. We do have seat belt laws everywhere (well, except NH). Those laws take into consideration idiots too (though I do disagree with them being actual laws).

 

[diver0008]

We agree.

What the captain said is dubious hearsay.

 

[stretchthepenn]

What also raised a red flag to me right at the beginning is that the captain didn't want to see my c-card. I had printed out the waiver from the op website and brought it with me. Captain said people rarely did that and he didn't need to see my card as a result. I still showed it to him. As what I understand from the charter I usually dive with is that the CG requires people to have their c-cards on them. No c-card, you don't dive. Period.

Did you show your c-card at the shop when filling out paperwork, or did you have to provide c-card information at any other time? I've been on many boats where the rule is "show your card at the shop, and then you're good for the boat."

This charter was unusual in my experience as the guy serving as crew actually got into the water with us.

A crewmember splashing with you is not tremendously unusual, particularly on a very small boat. As long as the captain stays topside and crews the vessel, I'd not be alarmed.

My buddy's computer had decided to not function a day or do before the charter, but captain told her to still come when she called beforehand to ask about it, as other divers would have computers. I scratched my head at that, didn't say anything, and gave her my backup computer.

Dive computers aren't mandatory; they're just good ideas. Sharing a computer sure isn't a good idea, though... Maybe the captain was thinking your buddy would do it old-school, with a timer, depth gauge, and tables?

Captain wanted everyone back on the boat with 500 psi on the 2nd dive. That felt too little to me with the bad viz/depth (even though I was carrying my AL30 pony), so I told buddy our turn pressure was 1000 psi. We both climbed back on the boat with about 800.

Was the instruction to turn the dive at 500, or to get on board with 500? I've heard the latter many times, but never the former.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . . Dive computers aren't mandatory; they're just good ideas. Sharing a computer sure isn't a good idea, though... Maybe the captain was thinking your buddy would do it old-school, with a timer, depth gauge, and tables?

The dive op's reassuring words that "other divers would have computers" could also mean they contemplated other divers would have backup computers that they might be willing to loan (as the OP did).

 

[BDSC]

What also raised a red flag to me right at the beginning is that the captain didn't want to see my c-card.

I have had this happen one time with me in all my years of diving. Three of us had gone to Cozumel and signed up to dive with what turned out to be one of the best dive operations I have ever dove with. The guy came and met with us the evening before our dives were to start. He had us sign the typical waiver and that was it. He did not ask to see our c-cards so I asked him, "Don't you want to see our cards"?

His answer was something like this, "Don't need to. You're not going to spend thousands of dollars buying equipment and taking a trip like this only to try and save a few bucks by not taking the course."

I thought about that and it made perfect sense to me.

 

[diver0008]

I have had this happen one time with me in all my years of diving. Three of us had gone to Cozumel and signed up to dive with what turned out to be one of the best dive operations I have ever dove with. The guy came and met with us the evening before our dives were to start. He had us sign the typical waiver and that was it. He did not ask to see our c-cards so I asked him, "Don't you want to see our cards"?

His answer was something like this, "Don't need to. You're not going to spend thousands of dollars buying equipment and taking a trip like this only to try and save a few bucks by not taking the course."

I thought about that and it made perfect sense to me.

I think the OP was saying that the captain had not asked to see the cards.

I have never had such a request by a captian, but the OP is a new diver so may have had uninformed expectations.

Your experience however does sound unusual.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

Having a C-Card is not a legal requirement to dive, so I understand some operations not asking. I've been certified since 1989 and have only had to show a card once.

 

[diver0008]

Having a C-Card is not a legal requirement to dive, so I understand some operations not asking. I've been certified since 1989 and have only had to show a card once.

That is quite surprising to me. I don't think I have ever been able to get a tank on my back without filling in a form with my cert number and showing my card. I've been diving for far less time than you; perhaps you are very well known.

 

[boulderjohn]

That is quite surprising to me. I don't think I have ever been able to get a tank on my back without filling in a form with my cert number and showing my card. I've been diving for far less time than you; perhaps you are very well known.

That's pretty much my experience, too.

When actually diving, though, I rarely present a card. That was all taken care of when I signed up for the dive and paid my money. When I get on the boat, they assume that was all taken care of already.

I did have an interesting experience in this regard a couple of years ago. I walked into the dive shop to pay for my dive and sign the waiver, a shop I had used many, many times before. I paid for my dive by simply telling the employee, whom I had never met before, to take it off my frequent diver program on their computer, and I paid for my gas fill using my gas fill program on their computer. She was fine with all that. Then she asked to see my certification card. I was flabbergasted. I pointed out that I was about halfway through my frequent diver and frequent filler programs, and I figured I didn't need to bring it. Nope, she said--no card, no dive. Fortunately, the manager came by and told her to let me dive.

 

[elgoog]

I've been doing some research into a Great Lakes wreck diving trip in the next year or so and my impression was that having a C-card on board with you during the charter was a Coast Guard requirement and a violation here would impact the boat operator more than the diver with the absent card. Just based on this, I'd think it's good practice for the captain to ask to see everyone's card on EVERY trip, regardless of whether you're a regular with them or a first timer or filled out all your paperwork at the office.