BP/W DM Course??

[RJP]

I would recommend - and did - use the shop's standard recreational scuba rig. This "skill" is not intended to see if you can exchange gear, but rather to use the gear exchange to create "stress" over a protracted period of time to see how the DM-C handles themself in an underwater problem-solving scenario. Can you maintain composure, work with another diver, help them maintain composure, all while working through a series of individual tasks that need to be performed adroitly, in a particular, coordinated fashion... including ensuring you and your buddy have access to gas when needed. Using a BP/W would add some greater task loading and stress, and would certainly require greater skill. But not necessary fir the skill to be valid and accomplish its objective.

This advice is in contrast to the recommendation I usually make about taking rescue class in a BP/W long-hose configuration if that's how you usually dive. In rescue, the purpose of the skills is to instill the ability to repeat the skills if - god forbid - you ever needed to in the real world. So it would make sense to learn them in the gear you actually use in the real world. You will never need to perform a "gear exchange" in the real world.

 

[Mike.D]

If any basic open water skills become 'tricky' just because you're using a BP/W and/or long-hose... there's some significant skill deficit to overcome. Probably not right for the diver to be entering a DM course, rather than the BP/W.

I was more concerned with handing my rig over to my dive buddy who doesn't dive bp/w long lose setup then with my skill level.
However, using the standard rig for the course with an unknown buddy does make sense. Thanks for the advice guys.

 

[RichmondKYdiver]

I would recommend - and did - use the shop's standard recreational scuba rig. This "skill" is not intended to see if you can exchange gear, but rather to use the gear exchange to create "stress" over a protracted period of time to see how the DM-C handles themself in an underwater problem-solving scenario. Can you maintain composure, work with another diver, help them maintain composure, all while working through a series of individual tasks that need to be performed adroitly, in a particular, coordinated fashion... including ensuring you and your buddy have access to gas when needed. Using a BP/W would add some greater task loading and stress, and would certainly require greater skill. But not necessary fir the skill to be valid and accomplish its objective.

This advice is in contrast to the recommendation I usually make about taking rescue class in a BP/W long-hose configuration if that's how you usually dive. In rescue, the purpose of the skills is to instill the ability to repeat the skills if - god forbid - you ever needed to in the real world. So it would make sense to learn them in the gear you actually use in the real world. You will never need to perform a "gear exchange" in the real world.

This is exactly how my DM-C class of 6 just did our equipment exchange and followed up the following weekend mentoring a rescue class. I just finished a confined water class and demoed equipment removal and replacement on the surface. It helped by being familiar with the LDS equipment to demo and I feel it did help the OW confined students see me opening up the shoulder straps using the same equipment as them. Remember, these OW students are already tasked loaded. Have my single wing packed to fly out Saturday for a week of diving but rental for the pool....

 

[RJP]

It's usually the best idea to wear the same BC style as your students would be wearing, ie; jacket style BCD and to save your wing for your own recreational diving. If you go on to become an Instructor you should wear the same kit as the DC rents to it's students.

Using the same gear as the students is certainly an option. It makes sense - in a limited way - to provide comfort and familiarity to the students. However, as Andy points out above, it's an artificial comfort if the student ever dives with someone who doesn't have the exact same gear as them. Or - even more problematic - if the student rents gear on their first trip and doesn't know what to make of a slightly different set up.

The way we train involves students using jacket style bcd's with weight belts, back-inflate bcd's with integrated weights, and BP/w rigs with standard recreational regs ALL at some point during confined water and open water training. They will also be exposed to instructors and DMs diving BP/W, 7ft hose, and more often than not doubles. They will be briefed on the differences between the gear they are using, the gear other students are using, and the gear we are using.

When students see from the outset that gear may - and almost always does - vary from diver to diver and from dive to dive... they accept it at face value and move on. We never tell them "this is a problem" (mostly because it isn't) so they don't see it as such. Have done this with 12yr old Girl Scouts and 60yr old grandfathers, homemakers to nuclear physicists, and everyone in between... never seen a problem. Ever.

The added plus is that by the end of their OW training the student is in a far better position to make an informed decision on their own gear purchase, having done a "test dive" with the three most common set ups. Might not be too big a surprise then, that the shop sells more BP/W 7ft hose rigs to new students than anything else. And for those of you keeping score at home ($$$) the lion's share of these rigs have blue H's all over them.

:d

 

[gekodivebali]

I still think it makes little sense to show somebody who's learning how to do skills on equipment that is different to the one they're gonna use, especially when they see it done for the first time.
Once confined water has been successfully completed, I'm quite happy to take a long hose config for further training. Again, this would be different if all rigs at the shop were long hose configured...
Lastly, I do bow to Andy's superior teaching skills!

 

[RJP]

I still think it makes little sense to show somebody who's learning how to do skills on equipment that is different to the one they're gonna use, especially when they see it done for the first time.

Your intention is right on, but I personally believe that in order to do what you are trying to do it is more important to teach "the concept" rather than "the gear" to new students. Case in point... teaching students how to use the LPI to inflate/deflate their BCD. I would suggest that in a world where everyone teaches/learns in the same gear the majority of students are taught one of these three options:

• "To inflate use the RED button and to deflate use the BLACK button"
• "To inflate use the SQUARE button and to deflate use the ROUND button."
• "To inflate use the SMALL button and to deflate use the LARGE button"

Doing this doesn't actually teach the concept, but rather imprints a mnemonic device (button color, shape, size etc) on the student that is not only artificial, but whichever one you teach is doomed to be WRONG for the other 66% of the gear the student will come in contact with.

Instead, I'll teach "The way to remember which button to use is to think about what you want to have happen to the air - to deflate use the button nearest the mouthpiece where you want the air to come out when you deflate... to inflate use the button closer to the BCD which is where you want the air to go when you inflate." This way, colors, shapes, sizes of buttons are immaterial.

So when a new student looks at their ScubaPro LPI with a large black square button and a small round red button on the same side of the LPI, and then look at my Halcyon LPI with two small grey, round buttons on different sides of the LPI... they don't see that they are DIFFERENT... they see that they are the SAME.

 

[flots am]

So, has anyone done there DM/instructor course with this setup??

Your equipment preferences are irrelevant when diving as a DM employee. What matters is what your employer wants.

It's extremely unlikely that you'll find a recreational SCUBA operation of any sort that will be happy with you diving something that's significantly different from what it's customers are using. This means that your BP/W gets to stay home when you're working.

I beleive there might be one or two people here who have managed to do it after a lot of convincing, but on a global scale, you're going to find it's difficult.

"What makes sense," "what's better," "what's . . . " doesn't matter. What matters is what the shop/dive op's owner wants.

flots.

 

[Ste Wart]

The way we train involves students using jacket style bcd's with weight belts, back-inflate bcd's with integrated weights, and BP/w rigs with standard recreational regs ALL at some point during confined water and open water training. They will also be exposed to instructors and DMs diving BP/W, 7ft hose, and more often than not doubles. They will be briefed on the differences between the gear they are using, the gear other students are using, and the gear we are using.

Why not teach one system and teach it right?

If you really drill the equipment set-up and buddy check with the standard shop rig, then the student will easily pick-up changes in rigs. For example say the shop BCD has a right shoulder dump and they learn over and over to identify that dump through equipment set-up and buddy check. Then they go and rent one without a right shoulder dump, they will pick up that fact because they are actively searching the BCD. Their brain will tell them something has changed.

As for diving with divers who have different rigs well, if the guy with the different rig can't take a few moments to the guy with only 4 ow dives how primary donate works, then you probably shouldn't be diving with him.

 

[halocline]

I did the entire course in a BP/W except the gear swap, which I did with a jacket BC, no integrated weights, and a weight belt. No problems.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Some say the same thing about rescue classes. Use the same gear. Bull crap. A decent DM course should include as many different gear configurations as possible. And if DM's can't quickly and easily adjust to different set ups they shouldn't be DM's.

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