"buy equipment here" speech in OW first class!

[trevinkorea]

Several shops in SoCal have you sign a 'buying commitment' when signing up for classes, (including Sport Chalet), stating you will buy your personal gear from them by the first pool session, (fins,mask, snorkel, gloves, booties, hood), or they will refund your tuition less the book costs, and send you elsewhere.

I can't beleive this! Most student's I tought would likely buy thier personal gear from the shop that teaches them. But, I guess if the instructor's are really substandard or the shops prices are way over the top it might be necessary to have the contract.

But, If they give you a break on the course price and sell reasonably priced quality equipment with good service, the student will likely end up getting better gear than if they blindly bought off the internet. Could be a good thing in the long run.

One of the shops I used to go to gave me the speech and the cold shoulder after I had bought a BC from another LDS. My original LDS didn't sell anything like it and wouldn't bring it in. For me, I vote with my feet.

If a LDS tried to pressure sell me I would and have on several occasions walked.

They are a business and should compete like any other business or die.

The really good shops will servive and we'll all be better off in the end.

 

[The Kraken]

There is an LDS in the greater Atlanta area that requires an OW student to have his/her gear, if not purchased through them, inspected for worthiness.

There is a slight fee of $65 charged for this "service".

Brand new gear and an LDS wants to charge to "inspect" it ????


the K

 

[Canadian_Diver]

True true, I just really felt like I signed up and *paid* for a teaching class, please leave the sales speeches out. And don't get me wrong, I like the instructor and he is very friendly. Of course you have to understand, when I worked for best buy years ago as a PC tech they pushed me out on the sales floor *once*. After they caught me telling people to buy things they didn't sell (much better stuff IMHO) they put me back where I belonged. lol

As to the O2, 100%. I did a quick search and it seems the "safest" level is 1.4ata (or 13.2 feet) or 1.6 for "resting deco" which is 19.8 feet. So 10 feet is just safer then 20. Of course, this is all just for fun since the chances me running on 100% O2 for anything are pretty slim.

Unfortunately, I don't think it matters where you go, just about every LDS will have some sort of sales speech. It's the only way they can stay in business. They're not making millions of dollars. Our LDS' here in the Canadian Prairies, barely make enough to break even and stay in business..... some of them don't.... and go under.

O2 and PO2 is covered in the Nitrox course. A PO2 of 1.10ata is the threshold for oxygen toxicity symptoms. A PO2 of 1.40ata is the level at which oxygen presents a moderate risk to divers (recommended limiting PO2 for recreational diving). A PO2 of 1.60ata is the level at which oxygen presents a more substantial risk to divers ... the absolute limiting PO2 for recreational divers. Of course, this is according to the SSI Nitrox course.

Myself, I'd never breach a PO2 of 1.40ata .... others would disagree with me. And, never say never, you may one day want to get into more technical diving that requires you to do a deco stop at on pure O2....

 

[MikeFerrara]

There is an LDS in the greater Atlanta area that requires an OW student to have his/her gear, if not purchased through them, inspected for worthiness.

There is a slight fee of $65 charged for this "service".

Brand new gear and an LDS wants to charge to "inspect" it ????


the K

?I had a student once who showed up for class with mask and fins he got elsewhere...oh well it happens but it hurts because there isn't any sense in even teaching a class if it doesn't at least sell some masks and fins at what OW classes go for. Anyway, he was totaly nonfunctional the whole first pool session. The mask was solid for even though he barrowed some defog. I suggested that he clean the mask really well. The next pool session he still couldn't see and was holding up the class. I took a look at the mask and saw that itr was all scratched up. It was a plastic mask from walmart or someplace.

I don't know how reasonable $65 is for an inspection fee but I sure don't blame the shop for wanting to take a look at it.

One thing is certain and that is that it doesn't heurt as much to put in time or effort to stand behind equipment that you sold. I've had many other instances where not only did I not get to sell the gear but spent WAY TOO MUCH time dealing with equipment problems.Once a student ordered mask and fins online but it didn't show up in time for class. When he found out that we were going to charge him for rental he went balistic and started a HUGE arguiement in front of the whole class...he thought we should loan him the stuff free of charge. He bad mouthed me around town for years telling every one that I treated it too much like a business. LOL...duh...here's your sign. Then there was the father and son who showed up with ancient masks that were WAY TOO BIG for them, rubber was half rotted away and insisted on using them.

So bottom line...any instructor should insist on having the last word on whether equipment is adequate for class. Aside from potential safety issues, if some ones poor equipment choice takes up your time and the time of your other students you should absolutely charge for that time.

 

[toodive4]

Not all shops are like this. But as I've said, do your homework. In the area of the USA I'm from we have about 9 shops I consider to be somewhat local (Within 1 Hours drive time.) Of these nine, 4 of them would never see a penny of my business due to the reasons stated previously. That is a very worrisome 44%. Or should I say new divers in the area have a 44% chance of walking into these shops and being treated poorly (taken advantage of price wise and lied to.) Of the other 5, 1 caters almost exclusively to snorkelers and isn't much on selling dive classes or gear (although they are a dive shop,) 2 others are run by very nice guys who are poor business men. They do not keep stock in the store and lose money because they never have what you need. They have to "order" it and it takes weeks to get stuff (no fulfilling the instant gratification or the instant need if starting a class.) The final 2 shops are pretty good and get some of my LDS business. The only problems with them are their prices are usually inflated a bit... so in the end... many of us drive 2.5 hours to a shop in another state where the prices are excellent, the ownership treats everyone super, runs nice trips, etc... Even with gas prices what they are it's worth the $30 in gas to save $150 on a reg or bcd...

Happy Diving to my friends in Australia... was there last May and had a blast on The Spirit of Freedom and enjoyed beautiful and friendly North Queensland.

G'day Mate


Ken

Wow, that's terribly cynical and downright scary if it is indeed the norm for lds' in your area.

Yes, I would like my instructors to sell the gear we have in the shops for obvious reasons...but not every student will find gear to suit their needs and instructors should be able to advise properly. No instructor/shop should trash something for the sole reason that it isn't on their commission/sales sheet.

It is shortsighted for an owner/manager/instructor to be pissy about not selling gear they stock to OW students...good, solid, respectable service will serve much better in the long run.

I would want to know, as an owner, if a student felt that the instructor was over the top, aggressive or dismissive! Owners/instructors as you describe are a discredit to the whole industry and shouldn't be getting any of your dollars or time.

 

[jonnythan]

Several shops in SoCal have you sign a 'buying commitment' when signing up for classes, (including Sport Chalet), stating you will buy your personal gear from them by the first pool session, (fins,mask, snorkel, gloves, booties, hood), or they will refund your tuition less the book costs, and send you elsewhere.

I think that's fair. Personal gear isn't that big of an investment, and you really need to try on your mask and fins in an actual shop. I think it's perfectly acceptable to force them to buy from your shop in order to make sure they get gear that's acceptable.

This probably came more from people getting cheapo masks and fins at Wal Mart or getting stuff that obviously doesn't fit online than sheer greed.

 

[Canadian_Diver]

Wow, that's terribly cynical and downright scary if it is indeed the norm for lds' in your area.

That's easy for an LDS owner to say that lives in an area known for diving. Geographics play a huge part in how easily a diveshop can stay afloat.

 

[Canadian_Diver]

My LDS requires instructors to push their gear. When I tried to help the shop as an assistant inst, so I could get some free diving, they told me I could only wear stuff that the shop sold. I don't assist any more.

That's not uncommon.

When instructing for a diveshop, you are representing that LDS. It's like wearing a uniform... and that brand is the LDS's uniform. If you're getting free stuff, I don't see what is so terrible about being asked to wear a free uniform. :06:

 

[El Orans]

If you're getting free stuff, I don't see what is so terrible about being asked to wear a free uniform. :06:

Q: Is he getting free stuff?

 

[toodive4]

Jonnythan,

Fair? Fair is signing up for a dive class and being taught how to dive. The class should also include FREE information on the types of gear you will need and an introduction of some of the options the shop sells. New divers should be spoken too about their diving goals and quality Instructors / owners should be able to point the new diver in a solid direction. If honest - and a good business man, a shop owner / Instructor will be able to sell to the needs of his students. If he feels their needs are best served by either a higher or lower quality/priced piece of gear than what he/she sells - then he should point the diver in the direction of where to purchase his/her recommendations. This wins long term repeat customers. New Divers should have a wonderful experience learning to dive, not have their wallets pilfered and they should NOT BE PRESSURED.

Sending people on their way because they don't buy your shops gear is a slap in the face to the entire industry. It gives the entire sport of diving a black eye. For those of you paying attention - please do not do business with these shops...

Ken

I think that's fair. Personal gear isn't that big of an investment, and you really need to try on your mask and fins in an actual shop. I think it's perfectly acceptable to force them to buy from your shop in order to make sure they get gear that's acceptable.

This probably came more from people getting cheapo masks and fins at Wal Mart or getting stuff that obviously doesn't fit online than sheer greed.