"buy equipment here" speech in OW first class!

[Blackwood]

Warren,

If I had an instructor who was so unaware of diving that he only knew the brands sold in his shop and was unable to name any others . . . i'd run . . . fast.

You can be a good driver without knowing about car makes. Similarly, you can be a good diver without knowing about equipment brands.

 

[Sideband]

That's the million dollar question that makes all the difference. He did say that he became an asst. instructor for free stuff... to what extent??? :06:

No. He said he did it to get in some free diving.

Joe

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Several shops in SoCal have you sign a 'buying commitment' when signing up for classes, (including Sport Chalet), stating you will buy your personal gear from them by the first pool session, (fins,mask, snorkel, gloves, booties, hood), or they will refund your tuition less the book costs, and send you elsewhere.

These shops typically offer the OW class as a loss leader ... meaning that it costs them more to put on the class than your tuition is going to cover. They typically charge anywhere from $80 to $100 for an OW class, and make up the revenue in markups on the gear you purchase. Obviously, this business model only works if you purchase gear at the shop.

Shops that don't push gear ... or independent instructors who don't sell gear ... often have to charge on the order of $250 to $350 to make an OW class worth their time and investment.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cummings66]

You can be a good driver without knowing about car makes. Similarly, you can be a good diver without knowing about equipment brands.

Well the thing about it is he couldn't name any other brands he thought was better.

The thing about that is maybe he was right, in his mind. The reason there are so many different brands out there is somebody somewhere thought they could do it better, so they gave it a go. You'll find people who like Mares, those who hate it. Same for Sherwood and every other brand out there.

So, if you ask a Mares guy for a better brand what is he going to say, Sherwood?

For me I wouldn't like a real high pressure sales job, i.e. if you don't buy this gear from us I'll be tough on you and you will really have to be an exceptional diver to pass the cert. If the approach was along the lines of we sell brand x because we believe in it and you should consider this gear for the class then I'd be ok with that approach.

When I recently took my class in addition to interviewing previous students I asked if I had to buy the gear from them for the class and when they said no I decided to take the class. I did buy some gear from them however. It wasn't a lot more money and they helped me get the fit right.

 

[Hoosier]

Sigh~~~

How do you think about the dive shop that charges $250 plus $79 OW check out fee and additional pressure for the gear purchase in Mid-West area? Some members who live in a favorable place for the diving can't imagine what is going on in other world.

Nothing personal,

These shops typically offer the OW class as a loss leader ... meaning that it costs them more to put on the class than your tuition is going to cover. They typically charge anywhere from $80 to $100 for an OW class, and make up the revenue in markups on the gear you purchase. Obviously, this business model only works if you purchase gear at the shop.

Shops that don't push gear ... or independent instructors who don't sell gear ... often have to charge on the order of $250 to $350 to make an OW class worth their time and investment.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Wayward Son]

Yeah, that Zeagle gear is total crap. Truly amazing those guys didn't get killed spearing that 403 lb warsaw grouper at 425 FSW last month, huh?

 

[cummings66]

Sigh~~~

How do you think about the dive shop that charges $250 plus $79 OW check out fee

Steep.

When you say you live in the midwest, by your name I assume Indiana is your state? If so I understand, the only bad aviation thing I ever had happen was in that state and they apparently think it's normal to shaft a transient pilot.

I would however like to point out that in the mid west there are many great LDS's and instructors. My LDS many times will beat the prices of places like leisurepro and discount diver, etc. If you buy so much of your gear from them they even toss in courses like Advanced open water as an incentive to get you out diving. They don't hold it against you if you buy elsewhere and treat you the same regardless. Buy a tank and it's free air for life, things like that are nice if you dive a lot, and I intend to do that. Of course that free air is from them, but they do trips.

Your LDS doesn't sound great on the other hand, but each shop is different.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Sigh~~~

How do you think about the dive shop that charges $250 plus $79 OW check out fee and additional pressure for the gear purchase in Mid-West area? Some members who live in a favorable place for the diving can't imagine what is going on in other world.

Nothing personal,

Indeed ...

Like any other business, prices will depend on the cost of producing the product (in this case, costs for things like pool and dive site access will cause some variability), and the availability of competitive products (in other words, what are the other shops in your area charging). In areas where there is less competition, prices will generally be higher (classic supply and demand).

Certainly, I'm quoting local prices ... but the concepts are the same. Dive shops price according to what they have to earn in profit in order to justify staying in business. I've yet to meet a dive shop owner who makes a financial killing from teaching scuba classes ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Ishie]

Wow, the more I read, the more I'm grateful for my dive shop (Dolphin). It wasn't the shop where I was certified, but it's the shop where I'll be doing all other certs because I like the store so much (though loved my previous instructor, who made the owner do the hawking.

I have quite a number of Mares products, including my regulator, which I love. I've brought my regulator into Dolphin a few times for various things, and they aren't a Mares dealer. The first time I brought it in, they didn't know me, but the girl there exclaimed "It's so little!" and examined it. The only negative thing they've said about it was that some of Mares' regulators can be a little more expensive to maintain. A few asked me how it breathes and showed interest. When I needed to rent an SPG while I was waiting for mine, they attached it with no problem, and without charging me extra or nagging me about where I bought it.

They've regularly given me great service, great advice, and great prices, and as a result, when I want a class, a trip, or a product they carry, they're my number one choice, because I've never felt any pressure by them for anything, and as a result, they've gotten at least a couple grand out of me or on my behalf.

Despite 'allowing' their customers to buy elsewhere and even off the *gasp* internet without harassment, regularly when I go in there, they are absolutely swamped with customers.

I didn't think this kind of service and friendliness was *that* unusual, but the more I read, wow!

 

[Shawn95]

It was part of my IDC presntations to talk about and sell gear and further coursing. There is no other way for a store to stay in business. No store, no air.

Personally on my Open Water I was having enough trouble learning to dive to even listen to gear choices. When I thought I was ready I chose gear that was not good enough for my long term diving needs. I am on my 3rd different set now. I try to tell my students now to try or at least look at as many different types of gear available. If they find something that we do not sell, at least give us a chance to talk about equivalant gear and maybe get a good fit of gear. If it's purely a price problem, then at least give the LDS a chance. The internet is a good way to look for stuff but i do agree with the "life support" comment. With the free parts from a LDS for reg servicing it will make up the cost of the higher price a a short time. I do shop internet for alot of stuff myself.