Cavern/Cave Intro Training with GDI

[rookers]

I recently went from 0->apprentice, and it was extremely helpful that I was already comfortable in my doubles. I think entering an overhead the first day in doubles sounds pretty difficult. That I was already rigged correctly, used to a wing/bp, had properly rigged lights, hoses (and knew how to drill with it all) was immensely helpful. It really allowed us to move forward quickly.

 

[Jeff Toorish]

"And So, We Learn" - see post #2 above.

Whether to teach Cavern/IntroCave with doubles has been debated quite a bit recently; there are several instructors now doing so. One can always take Cavern in a single...

I did have the option to start with a single tank. It was my choice to go with the doubles up front.

If I would have had the opportunity, I would have learned doubles first but that was not an option.

In all honesty, once I worked out the kinks, the doubles were no problem and I actually think doing it this way worked well. We also worked for an extra day so I did have more opportunity to get used to the doubles before going into an overhead environment.

Incidentally, I dropped off two tanks to my LDS today to have them converted to doubles. They are only AL80s, but I plan to keep a set of double 120s in Florida, as well.


Jeff

 

[TSandM]

I really, really enjoyed reading this account.

I'm trying desperately to get as much groundwork done before I get to my cave class as possible. I'm diving doubles, have taken a wreck workshop to learn line skills, and my buddy and I have vowed to do a great many practice dives laying line and following it out blind before we head south. The kicks and buoyancy work came out of Fundies.

I know it will still be a challenge, but with any luck, one I've prepared well for.

 

[JasonH20]

Thanks for the great post Jeff. You didn't say specifically, but did you pass both classes? It sounds like you did, which in that case, a congratulations is due too! I'm taking Cavern with Rick in a couple weeks and it's fun to read through your experiences with him! I've said it before in another post, but I keep reading these reviews and wonder what I got myself into! However it turns out for me, I'm sure it will be a great learning experience, I just hope I don't make a total fool of myself.

Just one question about the componding problems thrown at you. Do you have a way to end the drill if it just becomes too much? Sort of a S&M safeword? I realize in a real situation that's not an option, but during a drill simulating multiple failures a student might completly lose their composer. It would be a shame for someone to get hurt for the sake of training. Specifically during the light out drills, how can Rick monitor the student(s)? Do you have a way to signal you have a "real" problem? Actually I suppose Rick would respond the same either way to your "real" or "simulated" problem.

I'm sure we'll go over this stuff before the dives. I'm just feeling a little trepidation on how I'm going to respond to all this stuff. I've had light failures at night, had 0 vis swimming through a roto tillers trail, and have done my share of s-drills, but never at the same time with current, in a confined, overhead environment, trying to follow a piece of string! It will be an eye opening experience for sure.

Cheers!
Jason

 

[H2Andy]

good story and f-ing well told...

welcome to the darkside!

but don't worry, GDI won't cut your arm off and make you call him Daddy ... er... or maybe he will??

 

[Mark Vlahos]

Thanks for the great post Jeff. You didn't say specifically, but did you pass both classes? It sounds like you did, which in that case, a congratulations is due too! I'm taking Cavern with Rick in a couple weeks and it's fun to read through your experiences with him! I've said it before in another post, but I keep reading these reviews and wonder what I got myself into! However it turns out for me, I'm sure it will be a great learning experience, I just hope I don't make a total fool of myself.

Just one question about the componding problems thrown at you. Do you have a way to end the drill if it just becomes too much? Sort of a S&M safeword? I realize in a real situation that's not an option, but during a drill simulating multiple failures a student might completly lose their composer. It would be a shame for someone to get hurt for the sake of training. Specifically during the light out drills, how can Rick monitor the student(s)? Do you have a way to signal you have a "real" problem? Actually I suppose Rick would respond the same either way to your "real" or "simulated" problem.

I'm sure we'll go over this stuff before the dives. I'm just feeling a little trepidation on how I'm going to respond to all this stuff. I've had light failures at night, had 0 vis swimming through a roto tillers trail, and have done my share of s-drills, but never at the same time with current, in a confined, overhead environment, trying to follow a piece of string! It will be an eye opening experience for sure.

Cheers!
Jason

My experience with Rick was that I could always stop things if I wanted to. Of course, stopping an exercise will almost certainly mean failure of that skill, and failure of a skill will result in failure of the class. In the lights out drills, I still had my lights, the switches were simply turned off, I could turn them back on if the situation was getting too uncomfortable for me. If Rick had my masks I could always stop what was going on and ask for them back. Entanglements were simulated, air shares were done with your good air supply still close at hand.

The intention is to make the skills as real as possible without actually endangering either you or the instructor. Having said this though, it sure feels pretty real when you are doning it in the water in a real cave at depth.

Rick made it very clear that if we were doing a drill and a real emergency or serious problem occured, the drill would immediately end and the real problem would be dealt with and a safe exit from the cave would be made.

One very impoortant thing to remember when you think about cave training, compared to basic or advanced open water. In basic scuba classes the instructor demonstrates a skill and then has each student demonstrate that skill one at a time. In cave training the instructor will certainly go over skills, and talk about new skills on the surface and on the early dives, but eventually your cave instructor will require you deal with multiple failures, and some of these tests will come at times when you are already busy dealing with other problems, not one at a time. It is also very important to remember that you still need to maintain proper bouyancy and kicking techniques, and you still need to keep your eye open for a buddy who has the tamerity to run out of air while you are dealing with a jammed reel, or other similar problem. You still need to maintain an awarness of where all members of your team are, and which way the exit is. You want to still know where the line leading you to that safe exit is. Among the many things the instructor is looking at is your ability not to crack when you are confronted with multiple failures or problems. You need to demonstrate an ability to deal with all of the problems without being distracted from your primary goal of being able to exit the cave safely with every member of the team.

Mark Vlahos

 

[Jeff Toorish]

Thanks for the great post Jeff. You didn't say specifically, but did you pass both classes? It sounds like you did, which in that case, a congratulations is due too! I'm taking Cavern with Rick in a couple weeks and it's fun to read through your experiences with him! I've said it before in another post, but I keep reading these reviews and wonder what I got myself into! However it turns out for me, I'm sure it will be a great learning experience, I just hope I don't make a total fool of myself.

Just one question about the componding problems thrown at you. Do you have a way to end the drill if it just becomes too much? Sort of a S&M safeword? I realize in a real situation that's not an option, but during a drill simulating multiple failures a student might completly lose their composer. It would be a shame for someone to get hurt for the sake of training. Specifically during the light out drills, how can Rick monitor the student(s)? Do you have a way to signal you have a "real" problem? Actually I suppose Rick would respond the same either way to your "real" or "simulated" problem.

I'm sure we'll go over this stuff before the dives. I'm just feeling a little trepidation on how I'm going to respond to all this stuff. I've had light failures at night, had 0 vis swimming through a roto tillers trail, and have done my share of s-drills, but never at the same time with current, in a confined, overhead environment, trying to follow a piece of string! It will be an eye opening experience for sure.

Cheers!
Jason

Jason,

I've never been much on safe-words.

In fact, I also never felt in any danger. Once I did turn on my light during a blackout drill, we went a bit further, and then we turned it off again. I did that drill again several times later without a problem.

Rick explains everything that is going to happen for the most part, it's just that you don't always know when it will happen. Please don't feel freaked out, this is training, not trial by fire and Rick is a very experienced instructor.

The whited out mask can be pretty tough, and Rick explained that if there was a problem, just take it off and go for your back-up mask.

You're going to love it.

Jeff

(Yes, I did pass, Rick posted a congrats a few days ago!)

 

[Jeff Toorish]

good story and f-ing well told...

welcome to the darkside!

but don't worry, GDI won't cut your arm off and make you call him Daddy ... er... or maybe he will??

Andy,

Thanks...your name came up more than once during the week.

Jeff

 

[Mark Vlahos]

...

The whited out mask can be pretty tough, and Rick explained that if there was a problem, just take it off and go for your back-up mask.

...

Jeff

It's funny, the white out mask for me was no big deal, every diver is different, and Rick did warn me that most divers find the white out mask disturbing. I did have problems with total mask removal, that was my weak point. Rick just made sure that I "lost" my mask on almost every dive.

Mark Vlahos

 

[Jeff Toorish]

I did have problems with total mask removal, that was my weak point. Rick just made sure that I "lost" my mask on almost every dive.

Mark Vlahos

Yes, training to improve the areas that need it!

(Of course, that is when you become really creative with those throught the reg comments.)