Cavern vs. Cave Diving

[DiveMonkeys]

JupiterMaid,
I would even question the judgment to "try" doubles at Little River. Have you had any experience diving doubles?

 

[jupitermermaid]

No, I've never had doubles on my back before. It was presented that I try them on in shallow water to see how they feel, either at Orange Grove or Little River, the buoyancy provided (or lost) with them, and how I adapt to them. Eagle's Nest is completely out of the question at this point. There is no way I'm going near the place after all I've read and researched.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Eagle's Nest is completely out of the question at this point. There is no way I'm going near the place after all I've read and researched.

Excellent decision, perhaps even a life saving one.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Lessee here...
Per the NSS-CDS, a cavern is
(1) in the daylight zone
(2) within 130' of the surface (NACD allows 200')
(3) no restrictions between you and the surface
(4) max depth of 70' (NACD allows 100')
Never been to Eagle's Nest, but it doesn't look like it has much that meets those specs.
Rick

 

[contender]

No, I've never had doubles on my back before. It was presented that I try them on in shallow water to see how they feel, either at Orange Grove or Little River, the buoyancy provided (or lost) with them, and how I adapt to them. Eagle's Nest is completely out of the question at this point. There is no way I'm going near the place after all I've read and researched.

Jupitermermaid,
Why not do this, call Jim Wyatt or some other cave instructor and let them teach you to dive in doubles safely. There is more to doubles than putting them on and jumping in. Once you get used to them, dive with them and practice. Then after you get your experience level up, take a cave class with a GOOD buddy and then dive the caves.

There is no magic number of dives you need before you can proceed in training. It will be painfully obvious to your instructor if you lack in skills in anyway. Eagles Nest is not the proper place to learn that you lack in skills, because "Evolution in Action" could take place. Safe Diving.

 

[contender]

My profile was the best you could come up with. Sad.

Yes, I do stand up for those who are afraid to post because of the political backlash. It's because of the politics that more people don't post and the "Cave community" is where politics are at their worst.

Probably because it's the Cave Community that suffers the most, when a untrained diver makes a bad choice and dies in a cave.

 

[rjack321]

Jupitermermaid,
Why not do this, call Jim Wyatt or some other cave instructor and let them teach you to dive in doubles safely. There is more to doubles than putting them on and jumping in. Once you get used to them, dive with them and practice. Then after you get your experience level up, take a cave class with a GOOD buddy and then dive the caves.

There is no magic number of dives you need before you can proceed in training. It will be painfully obvious to your instructor if you lack in skills in anyway. Eagles Nest is not the proper place to learn that you lack in skills, because "Evolution in Action" could take place. Safe Diving.

excellent suggestion

 

[DiveBandit]

Could a possible solution be to have NSS-CDS and the NACD jointly come up with some sort of cave education mini class that could be inserted into all the different agency's OW cert classes so that everybody who comes out of basic OW has at least some idea of what caves are and why they need better training before going in one ??

EDIT - I guess they have already. The short movie, A deceptively easy way to die. I think that video was created for OW instructors to show their classes, no?

 

[TSandM]

You know, I'm willing to hold forth at great length about the deficiencies of my OW class. But I will say one thing for it: There was NO doubt in my mind, when I finished it, that someone with my training was not supposed to go inside of ANYTHING. It was made quite clear, and repeatedly so. I don't think we need to add anything to the class to accomplish that.

I've followed this thread from the beginning, and I have to say that it disturbs me a great deal that someone who has taken a cavern class would seem to be so unperturbed about diving with someone who is described the way the OP has described her buddy: "Risk taking", "self destructive behavior", "inattention", "lack of communication". I haven't taken cavern yet, but I took a wreck workshop where we had to do no-viz exits on a line, and I came away from that experience with a very profound respect for the dangers of getting yourself into a position where you have to follow a line out when you're blind. I cannot imagine agreeing to enter any kind of overhead environment with someone whose skills, judgment and responsibility I did not absolutely trust. Nor can I imagine agreeing to any dive without having done the research on the topography and conditions of the site, especially if it's an overhead.

Either the OP's cavern class didn't convey the seriousness of overhead diving (which, as I suspect I know who the instructor was, I doubt), or the OP didn't absorb it, or she's letting the desire to dive at all costs make her turn a blind eye to the inadvisability of diving with this companion. Or she's got a far higher risk tolerance than I do.

 

[Rick Murchison]

...I guess they have already. The short movie, A deceptively easy way to die. I think that video was created for OW instructors to show their classes, no?

Yes.
Rick