Challenging Poor Buddy Skills -

[Diver0001]

This thread comes as a spin off from a long discussion elsewhere, and I think merits discussion it its own right -

The scenario involved a very experienced and competent diver (an instructor) who showed a tendency to 'wander off' and do their own thing during a dive and not maintain good buddy skills. In real life the scenario had a tragic ending.

Has this happened to you, what did you do, with hindsight what would you do different?

So basically three questions

1/ - "How do I confront an 'experienced' buddy about their behaviour"
2/ - "What can I do if the experienced diver is not open to feedback"
3/ - "How do I, as an experienced diver, remain open to feedback from my buddies"

Phil

1/- I always start with the "why" question. For example, say the buddy kept trying to go deeper than we had agreed upon pre-dive. I would say, "when we were at 30 meters I noticed you kept going deeper, but I thought we had agreed to dive to max 30. What was happening?"

This just gives the buddy an opening to talk. Sometimes the answer might surprise you. In one case where this happened to me, my buddy reported that his computer never showed that he was deeper than 30 metres and the logbook confirmed it. I had to go and get him several times from 35 metres, and my logbook confirmed my maximum depth. It turned out his computer was broken. In other cases they'll give you some kind of BS story to explain it, which gives you the opening to say, "Ok, I understand what you're saying, but as your buddy, that makes me uncomfortable. I much prefer to stick to the plan." This gets a discussion going about expectations without being so confrontational that they get their back up before you can make your point.

2/- Not much. If you can't adjust or accept their behaviour then you don't have a choice.

3/- You need to take your buddy seriously. If you don't have a "team" mentality then it's going to be hard for you to see your buddy as an equal, especially if they are less experienced, younger, man/woman or all that kind of stuff that sometimes causes people to disrespect or disregard another person. If you're having issues and you would *like* to adjust then asking your buddy the "why" question (again, the why question) will help get a discussion opened where everyone can get their wishes on the table. At that point, look for common ground first and then work on the bits where someone needs to adjust.

R..

 

[Soakedlontra]

This thread comes as a spin off from a long discussion elsewhere, and I think merits discussion it its own right -

The scenario involved a very experienced and competent diver (an instructor) who showed a tendency to 'wander off' and do their own thing during a dive and not maintain good buddy skills. In real life the scenario had a tragic ending.

Has this happened to you, what did you do, with hindsight what would you do different?

So basically three questions

1/ - "How do I confront an 'experienced' buddy about their behaviour"
2/ - "What can I do if the experienced diver is not open to feedback"
3/ - "How do I, as an experienced diver, remain open to feedback from my buddies"

Phil

1) It depends on the person and his/her "ego level". So far, in my experience, this approach has been pretty disappointing so I don't confront certain kind of buddies any more it's a waste of time.

2) I don't dive with this person any more

3) All of us could benefit from chilling out our egos and embracing humility.

 

[ajduplessis]

1. Say it they way you see it. No need to sugarcoat anything.
2. Dont dive again with him/her. Also be open to feedback.
3. Encourage post-dive discussions during SI and talk about what you liked or not.

 

[Diver0001]

1. Say it they way you see it. No need to sugarcoat anything.

I disagree. In a perfect world you could say exactly what's on your mind and everyone would accept it at face value.

In the real world, however, you *do* need to consider your delivery because not all people are (a) accustomed to "unsalted" feedback or (b) open enough to accept it.

Sometimes making your point requires social skills beyond those of elephant in a porcelain shop.

2. Dont dive again with him/her. Also be open to feedback.

What I said to this question is that you either need to accept it or make a choice... You've made the choice without considering the options.

3. Encourage post-dive discussions during SI and talk about what you liked or not.

I'm glad you're like that, but many, a GREAT many, experienced divers are not. One of the biggest problems in our sport is that experience divers won't listen.

R..

 

[Adventure-Ocean]

The first thing I'd recommend is to learn to feel comfortable in the water alone. If you get a lousy dive buddy who takes off, you won't feel too panicked. Obviously you don't dive with them again and I would most definately say something to them. Staying close enough to help someone is not rocket science. People respect being a good buddy or they don't. If you are buddied with a stranger, you might just talk about what you expect before going down. We always incouraged divers to talk out any worries they have about the dive so we could answer their questions and help them feel relaxed while diving. Try not to be too timid about it. It could be you that truly needed a buddy that day.

I was buddied up with a professor in marine biology who is well known in the science field world wide. We get into the water together and he starts down first. We did a 45 minute dive and he never looked back at me even once. I told him flat out he was a great marine biologist but a terrible dive buddy. He retired soon after so I don't think he cared. I suspect he did hundreds of dives alone and only had me along because the university required it.

There are as many strange things going on with buddy diving as there are different people. A lot of people get married but many divorce. The unspoken underwater relationship can be real simple most of the time. Sometimes there is no communication at all. Be Safe Adventure-Ocean

 

[drrich2]

I've noticed some people take issue with the 'follow the leader' approach, if the leader doesn't look back at them periodically. How important this is will vary with the type of dive and the divers involved, but for those it troubles, do you carry any sort of noise-making device?

When a buddy & I shore dive in Bonaire, as a matter of standard procedure we use tank bangers. And take extra, so if someone joins us, we can stick one on their tank, too (my buddy is a people person, and apt to have a friend come along). While my buddy and I have some familiarity with each other, I don't have that with a stranger, and I want to know they can get my attention if need be.

As has been discussed on other threads, situational awareness is not (and for some of us probably shall never be) a strong point for everyone.

But if your concern is that you can get in an emergency and your buddy won't see you, though you're sticking close, at least in more benign conditions with good viz., seems like a noise maker could help mitigate the issue somewhat.

Richard.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Sorry Rich but I disagree. Tank bangers may be for getting attention to look at fish or hey look what I can do or hey lets go this way but if your dive buddy is having a serious problem requiring your attention they'll be far too busy to snap their tank banger. If you want to be good dive buddies and not just SOBs, then make your dive buddy plans in advance. Dive X far apart in side to side formation making eye contact every X seconds, etc.

 

[gypsyjim]

I believe that being a good buddy, and by that I mean a safe dive buddy, you need to do more than just be able to get a drive's attention.

Dive accidents do often seem to be an end result of a series of more minor problems, that cascade into a major problem. If you are paying close attention you should notice your buddy struggling, before the issues cascade completely, and be ready to help resolve their problems.
Or help them if they can't.

Something like a tank banger might work on Bonaire were viz is near perfect, but in low viz, if you are not very close and paying attention, that banging will only start you searching, and hoping you find that buddy in time to help.

 

[D_B]

Premise: It has not happened to me

1: gingerly at best, maybe in terms of how it makes me feel uncomfortable?
2: dont know, I suspect I would do next dive and to try to keep in contact with them, if not able, and no other buddy available, I think not diving would be my answer (although comfortable under water, I do not have the equipment , training, necessary to dive solo )
3: not really applicable to me , but I do discuss options/reasoning if asked about something

tidbit .. if, for some reason you need to go single file (kelp, rocky outcrop, etc) .. shine your dive light underneath and in front of/below the person in front of you, and keep it there so they can tell your position and if your OK (shaking light beam back and forth indicates I need your attention)
This works very well and something I learned on ScubaBoard

Edit: neglected to say that this works well for lights with a narrow beam pattern like popular here , they work better in less visibility conditions

 

[gypsyjim]

Using your light to communicate requires a good light, and development of that skill set.

It certainly makes for better teamwork, if you and your buddy do it right.