Classes to be a great well rounded diver?

[ginti]

Is GUE fundamentals for the entry level diver? I was under the impression it was for those with more experience? And do they make you use a long hose for the class even if you have no interest in tec or using one in the future?
Thanks

If you are interested in it, my opinion is that the earlier you take it the better it is. Ask some instructors; some of them are here on SB

 

[RainPilot]

I always told OW students that to be a "real" diver, you needed to do OW, AOW and Rescue. That would give you the skillset and training to be comfortable and confident in the water and let you do most any rec dive you wanted to (given self practice etc)

I think I still agree with younger me, but I would add provisos:

• You need to get taught right. No amount of training from a bad instructor is going to help.
• I would now add a "back gas, light deco" course to the list (RAID Deco40, PADI Tec40 etc). Amazing the difference it makes when NDL is just a number.
• I would almost always advocate mentoring rather than courses for courses sake.

Many agencies offer a "skills improvement" course of some kind. GUE Fundamentals is always the immediate reference but there are other good programs. RAID has Performance Diver which is the same basic outline as GUE-F, but without all the DIR baggage. Can be done in whatever configuration you dive with and will iron out all the small (and not so small) bugs. The bar to being a Perf Diver instructor is also pretty high (must be a normoxic tech diver and Deco40 instructor, to start with) so the level of instructor should be higher than your average OWSI.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Nitrox is (can be) very useful, but I don't think it should be included with the other 3 to determine competency. I almost always dive shallow and haven't used it in years.

Yup I am nitrox certified yet rarely dive nitrox even when doing days of back to back diving staying within NDL limits.

 

[NothingClever]

I developed the below rubric to provide myself a comprehensive set of training objectives encompassing both intellectual and physical skills. It's a little over the top for your stated goals of OW training only but may provide you an example of how to bin things to establish some clarity.

When starting out, looking at the training paths of various certifying agencies can leave one feeling more confused than clearheaded. I use this to focus a conversation with a potential instructor to quickly show where my head is at and to communicate the proficiency and fidelity I expect from the trainer.

Note that DM is nowhere on the list. It’s an important course at some point but I consider it a pretty minor footnote in my scheme of individual development.

Last note...I have just as much fun on 15m dives as I do on 51m dives so don’t get hung up on technical depths. Like @RainPilot said, it’s amazing when you’re not bounded by NDL and your objectives are what define the depth and duration of your dive.

 

[Storker]

I would now add a "back gas, light deco" course to the list (RAID Deco40, PADI Tec40, CMAS 3* etc).

FTFY

 

[Rickk]

For dive courses, OW,AOW and then rescue/first aid, would be the minimum.

Then dive dive dive.

Specialties that enhance diving skills not underwater side activities. I would recommend Nitrox and deep for all divers with Dry suit, ice, wreck, cavern etc as interest takes you. Specialties are IMHO for activities that a new LDS will require you to show a card.

Equipment specialist if the workings of your gear and having the ability to do simple stuff yourself and save a dive. Science of diving if the theory really interests you.

I would stay away from photo, wildlife ID etc as you can get these skills elsewhere and at less expense. Just talk to other divers and perhaps pay for a dive and after dive beer to thank the mentor for the help. Take a particular specialty in this category only if it is the most economical way to get the skill set you want.

dive dive dive

Outside of diving, physical fitness, yoga breathing, seamanship, meteorology, oceanography, medical and first aid, etc will help.

DM is just about useless to make you a better diver. It needs you to be a good diver to start and teaches you to do those skills at a demonstration level, not a practical dive level. You would not take driver education teacher courses to become a better driver, so why take a dive teaching course to be a better diver? I looked long and hard at DM course and decided that my money would be better spent on just diving and doing other things, mentioned above, to make me a better diver.

One other thing to think about is that you may face increased liability in case of an incident, even if you are recreational diving as a customer of a dive operation. As a dive professional the level of ordinary care might be deemed higher for you than it would be for a ordinary rescue diver.

dive, dive dive

For what its worth, I am rescue diver with Ice, equipment, o2, nitrox, deep and dive science specialties. I am thinking about advanced nitrox and some more dive medicine courses. In the last year with a 30 day surface interval due to bad weather and a 120 day SI due to lockdown I will be over 200 dives. Targeting at least that in the next year.

Beyond that, dive, dive ,dive. Pay attention to your skills, practice buoyancy control, practice different fining and propulsion techniques, practice gas consumption management.

I would like to see Master Diver rating go away from being a customer loyalty card and be one where you had t demonstrate above average skills and knowledge at all dive aspects. Seriously limit the ability to issue this rating, perhaps to the course director level or employee of the dive agency to keep it from being another bragging rights card that anyone can buy.

Watch others underwater for good skills to emulate and bad ones to avoid, get a buddy with a go pro to video you and see if your skills look as good as you think you do.

 

[VikingDives]

DM is just about useless to make you a better diver. It needs you to be a good diver to start and teaches you to do those skills at a demonstration level, not a practical dive level. You would not take driver education teacher courses to become a better driver, so why take a dive teaching course to be a better diver? I looked long and hard at DM course and decided that my money would be better spent on just diving and doing other things, mentioned above, to make me a better diver.

This is such a trope. DM was where I mastered most of my skills, where I learned to back kick, and mastered my frog kick. Are you necessarily going to be taught those skills? No. I won't certify a DM who can't frog kick, and can't hover, but at least with padi you have to be able to demo some skills while naturally buoyant.

DM training (again, depending on who and where) will give you a minimum of probably 50 hours (just a guess) in the pool and open water, and while you're learning to DM, you get a lot of time to practice all those skills and home them.

If you wanted to you could stretch a DM course over a year and spend a ton of time training yourself.

I think I spent 8 months or so before I was certified. Part of that was because my shop didn't have any active DMs, so the candidates spent a lot of time getting practical experience, rather than working through the requirements, but DM is where you put into practice everything that you've learned in rescue (especially if you're working with weak/crappy instructors).

 

[NCK]

This is such a trope. DM was where I mastered most of my skills, where I learned to back kick, and mastered my frog kick. Are you necessarily going to be taught those skills? No. I won't certify a DM who can't frog kick, and can't hover, but at least with padi you have to be able to demo some skills while naturally buoyant.

DM training (again, depending on who and where) will give you a minimum of probably 50 hours (just a guess) in the pool and open water, and while you're learning to DM, you get a lot of time to practice all those skills and home them.

If you wanted to you could stretch a DM course over a year and spend a ton of time training yourself.

I think I spent 8 months or so before I was certified. Part of that was because my shop didn't have any active DMs, so the candidates spent a lot of time getting practical experience, rather than working through the requirements, but DM is where you put into practice everything that you've learned in rescue (especially if you're working with weak/crappy instructors).

But it sure doesn't look like an efficient use of time or money for someone just looking to become a better diver with no interest in working in the industry.

 

[ginti]

But it sure doesn't look like an efficient use of time or money for someone just looking to become a better diver with no interest in working in the industry.

Never done a DM, and I am interested in everyone's opinions here, since I have already considered in the past to do it and I am still considering it.

From what I understand about this course, it is:
- advanced;
- designed for some specific outputs, including professional ones.

Am I right? If yes, and if a diver is NOT interested in managing other divers with entry-level training, I believe that introductory technical training would be more useful, since it focuses on skills, awareness and knowledge - but not on other people's management, which I see as a useless investment if one is not interested in it.

Am I right? What do you guys think about it?

 

[Blackcrusader]

Last note...I have just as much fun on 15m dives as I do on 51m dives so don’t get hung up on technical depths. Like @RainPilot said, it’s amazing when you’re not bounded by NDL and your objectives are what define the depth and duration of your dive.

Just to note that after doing BSAC sports diving and deco on air in 1986 I was in a BSAC Club for 2 years. The club had regular training sessions twice a week and these sessions and reviewing things you had learned and doing them over was great. padi is in out never review again. That's the difference for any organization that has a club environment over padi which is really just get a cert and dive.

I've never wanted to be a DM or instructor, and the next course I want to do is the Solo certificate not because I want to dive solo but to learn from the course. A lot of the times as a diver taking photos and video my insta buddies have drifted off leaving my by myself and I catch up with my group later on. My dive buddies I take vacations with would never do this we team up.

I think looking for a club to join might be a great way to really get regular diving and be with people that will pass on knowledge and skills and not patronize you. Some instructors will push to to do some tec courses but again I am not interested. I may do sidemount at some point just so I can join some deeper deco dives occasionally. At 60 I am more inclined now to just stay shallow 30m or less and do longer dive times as lots off good stuff can be seen not so deep.

Two of my good dive friends one is DM certified and one an instructor both do not work in the industry. Another friend is a working instructor and occasionally I get to do fun dives with her and her husband if she can get a break in classes.