Confused about the whole Snorkel thing...

[timz]

After my OW, I've kept my snorkle in my gear bag for snorkling use. I mostly dive without snorkle, boat and shore.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I don't take my Nautilus GPS on a quarry dive, I don't take my deco bottle to a 30 foot reef, and I don't take a snorkel unless I'm doing the rare dive where a snorkel would really help.

And I REALLY don't understand this "immediately available" stuff. Why does it have to be stuck on your mask? What scenario is there where the seconds it takes to deploy a stowed snorkel would be a problem?.../

/...I want my backup second stage bungeed under my chin, so I can get it immediately if I have to donate my primary. But a snorkel stuck to a mask? Especially if you aren't planning on using it? Seems to be a klutzy configuration, DESPITE the fact that many divers have done it for many decades. I just don't see why.

You've made three particularly good points.

1. The equipment you take should fit the anticipated needs of the dive, and for many divers a snorkel just does not rise to the level of being equipment that is needed on very many dives, let alone every dive.

2. I see the insistence on "immediate availability" fading, particularly as some instructors only carry a snorkel because it's required by a standard, and they comply by stuffing a folding snorkel in a pocket as they recognize them will seldom use it, and if they need it, the few extra seconds needed to retrieve it won't make any difference. However for those instructors who insist it be hanging on the mask strap, it creates a problem as it interferes with something that should be far more relevant and far more important to them (see number 3).

3. Even for a recreational diver, a 5' hose for the primary regulator routed under the arm and up around the back of the neck to the mouth, combined with a backup regulator on an 18" - 22" hose on a bungee under the chin solves a lot of problems:

a) It eliminates any doubt about what second stage should be donated.
b) It reflects which second stage is most often taken by an OOA diver.
c) It solves the problem of an OOA diver trying to find the octo in the still very large "golden triangle" (which is why the primary gets taken in the vast majority of cases).
d) It solves the problem of the diver trying to find his own octo, after an OOA diver has taken his primary.
e) It prevents the octo from forming a little reef wrecking ball if it comes unattached, or if it is secured on too long a leash (which are both contributing reasons to why an octo can be hard to find in the golden triangle, because it doesn't always stay there).
f) It prevents the octo from being drug through sand, silt, etc, and helps ensure it will actually work when you need it.
g) It prevents an overly long primary regulator hose from forming a large loop of hose over the shoulder.
h) It prevents a long octo hose from forming a large loop of hose along side the diver.
I) combined with a swivel, or a 90 degree or 120 degree elbow, the 5' hose solves the discomfort and jaw fatigue caused by a too long or too short conventional hose pushing and pulling on the second stage.

Unfortunately, way too many instructors and way too many certification agencies choose to deny their students all of those benefits based on a resistance to change bolstered by the argument that a long hose primary and bungee back up interfere with a snorkel, with the implication that the snorkel MUST be carried by dangling it from the mask strap.

 

[Neilwood]

I am in the "carry and use a snorkel" group. Mine is a dry one with purge valve.

Why? Because my diving is mainly shore and I like to be able to see what is below me to decide when it is worth dropping down. Doing it this way means there is no point in stowing it so it is on the mask the whole time.

Boat dive? Might be different in that I might stow it ready for use if I end up with a surface swim until pickup.

Would I not carry a snorkel on any dive? Not as far as I can see. For the space required, it is worth it as a backup. To me I would treat it the same way as a dive knife or cutter - I don't plan on always using it but would I choose to dive without one?

 

[Storker]

the primary gets taken in the vast majority of cases

I see this claim popping up here on SB over and over again. I still haven't seen more than anecdotal evidence for it, as well for the contrary.

I prefer a long hose myself, so I don't have a snorkel attached to my mask strap. Others use other configurations and seem to do fine with that. Primary donate, primary grab, secondary donate, secondary grab are all discussed and practiced. Horses for courses. There's no need to go all OMG, THEY WON'T FIND YOUR OCTO, SO THEY'RE GONNA STEAL YOUR PRIMARY!!!!11111!!!!! to get your point through.

 

[archer1960]

I am in the "carry and use a snorkel" group. Mine is a dry one with purge valve.

Why? Because my diving is mainly shore and I like to be able to see what is below me to decide when it is worth dropping down. Doing it this way means there is no point in stowing it so it is on the mask the whole time.

Boat dive? Might be different in that I might stow it ready for use if I end up with a surface swim until pickup.

Would I not carry a snorkel on any dive? Not as far as I can see. For the space required, it is worth it as a backup. To me I would treat it the same way as a dive knife or cutter - I don't plan on always using it but would I choose to dive without one?

I'm in this group. All my local diving is from shore, sometimes with long-ish surface swims, and I like a snorkel for that. On my one Cozumel boat-diving trip, the waves got choppy a couple of times so I kept my reg in my mouth while waiting for the boat. If I didn't have any air left, the snorkel would have been a lot better than nothing.

 

[Doby45]

Only Scubaboard would have 5+ pages back and forth on something like a snorkel.

 

[agilis]

Immediately available does not necessarily mean attached to the mask. A dive knife, for example, or an spg should also be immediately available, and neither of these is attached to the mask.

 

[boulderjohn]

Asking this, you're going to get a repeat of the same 1000 opinions you've already read. Just realize the same solution doesn't suit everyone, and different solutions (including _no_ snorkel) may suit you better at different times. If you are looking for one perfect snorkel for all situations you won't find it, so don't lose sleep trying.

I quoted the above as a starting point, but a lot of other posts after this said essentially the same thing and could have been quoted instead. I agree that you have to use some common sense and do what is appropriate to your circumstances.

Over the years, I have acquired a number of snorkels of different kinds, from an expensive dry snorkel to a very cheap flexible snorkel that can be shoved in a pocket. I think ahead and do what is appropriate for the coming experience. If I am snorkeling lazily in any kind of chop, I am very happy to take that dry snorkel. If am diving, I don't want to wear one at all, especially since I am one of those who donates a long hose primary in the event of an OOA situation. When diving in a cave, there is obviously no point in even having one in my bag back in the car. When diving in open water, I ask myself what the odds are that I would ever be in a situation where it is needed and then plan according. I would not think of carrying one with me when diving in a relatively small lake, but I might carry one if there is a chance I will surface in the ocean with no boat in sight. In some places (like Australia), a snorkel might be required. In those last cases, i have the flexible snorkel in a pocket.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I see this claim popping up here on SB over and over again. I still haven't seen more than anecdotal evidence for it, as well for the contrary.

I don't know that anyone collects reliable data on this, so what is left is anecdotal accounts.

However, when I mention it, it's based on personal experience. Over a 30 year career in diving, I've donated air three times. Once was to a technical diving partner in a situation where we could see the need to share coming well in advance, so the hand off was very smooth.

The other two situations were with recreational divers who were also not my buddy. In both cases, they saw me, swam right in and took the primary. None of that out of air signaling, getting the octo bull****. I've never seen that happen.

What I marvel at is that so many OW divers seem to assume that air shares will actually work the way they do in OW training, when there is the same lack of reliable data to state that's the case. It's even more ironic when you consider the "training" is a short OW 3-4 day course with a whopping total of 4 OW dives.

Even with technical and cave divers, where the divers on average have a lot more training (on the average of 30 training days and 30 training dives for a deco trained full cave level diver (on top of usually years and hundreds of dives worth of experience), the assumption is still made that the OOA diver will take the primary. Why? Because that's what's likely to happen, so train for it.

Those accounts may well only be anecdotal, but they reflect actual real world experience and you'd do well to listen to them.

Plus, with long hose donation if all goes well and the gas donation is done according to protocol with proper signals, etc, you lose absolutely nothing. And if it goes wrong and the OOA diver just grabs the primary, it's still just a normal gas share that you've trained for, that happened pretty much the way it supposed to happen, just without the polite bits.

So why don't we train OW divers that way?

Oh yeah, I forgot, because that snorkel is in the way....

 

[Doby45]

That darn snorkel. Only the blue ones are bad when they have pancake on roof sodapop!