Continuing Education

[DaleC]

I am intrigued.

How many people believe in CONED for driving? Has anyone ever taken more courses beyond the initial test or lessons and if not why? Isn't there a whole lot to learn about the subject (varying road conditions, weather, planning long trips, roadside repairs, avoiding dangers, situational awareness etc...). Surely driving in a whiteout or speeding along at 60mph with 3' of air seperating us from the opposing car is not a natural environment for humans and the consequences of error can be catastrophic so why is it that we assume drivers can learn as they go, in the field, via experience, yet diving must be puncuated by formal education on a regular basis.

Are driving and diving that different or have we simply forfeited our ability to be confident in our innate abilities in one arena. Is it that the superstition and fear of the sea, held by man for thousands of years still holds sway over us making us afraid to venture forth alone. Or is it that taking formal courses have less to do with learning skills than we imagine and more with achieving a measurable level of performance.

I am not knocking anyone for continuing education but I do believe strongly in self reliance and find it hard to square some circles. Like an earlier discussion about reducing panic, when do we begin to develop the skills of self reliance? In our everyday approach to learning and problem solving or, at 100' when a crisis occurs.
From my perspective, it's more about the attitude than the aptitude.

 

[Brendon]

I am intrigued.

How many people believe in CONED for driving? Has anyone ever taken more courses beyond the initial test or lessons and if not why? Isn't there a whole lot to learn about the subject (varying road conditions, weather, planning long trips, roadside repairs, avoiding dangers, situational awareness etc...). Surely driving in a whiteout or speeding along at 60mph with 3' of air seperating us from the opposing car is not a natural environment for humans and the consequences of error can be catastrophic so why is it that we assume drivers can learn as they go, in the field, via experience, yet diving must be puncuated by formal education on a regular basis.

Are driving and diving that different or have we simply forfeited our ability to be confident in our innate abilities in one arena. Is it that the superstition and fear of the sea, held by man for thousands of years still holds sway over us making us afraid to venture forth alone. Or is it that taking formal courses have less to do with learning skills than we imagine and more with achieving a measurable level of performance.

I am not knocking anyone for continuing education but I do believe strongly in self reliance and find it hard to square some circles. Like an earlier discussion about reducing panic, when do we begin to develop the skills of self reliance? In our everyday approach to learning and problem solving or, at 100' when a crisis occurs.
From my perspective, it's more about the attitude than the aptitude.

Driving and diving are not even in the same playing field, Flying a plane and Diving on the other hand would be. Self Reliance is key for sure, as well as CONED in some form or another. I doubt people would ever be convinced of CONED for driving unless it benefited them in some monetary fashion like cheaper insurance rates. There are classes available for that already. I have taken 2 motorcycle and defensive driving. Most people dont associate driving with a possible loss of life, they just think of possible insurance claims and tickets. Which is why I took my courses. Maybe that is what is needed in the Scuba industry as well, cheaper insurance for safe diving practice and CONED. Although providing proof of that would be hard to come by at least on the safe diving part... Scuba police issuing tickets for unsafe diving practice, now that would be something. No I'm not advocating that I just think the thought of it is funny.. For me aptitude is key for defining good attitude.

 

[Jax]

I am intrigued.

How many people believe in CONED for driving?

AGREE Completely!!!

How many people know there are classes for emergency action? How many people teach their teenagers to drop a wheel off the side of a road and smoothly bring the vehicle back on the road -- instead of the wheel-jerk reaction that, at high speeds, leads to a sliding and possibly flipping car?

The government has classes for drivers of VIPs, so they can evade and safely get their person away from possible attackers.

How many people have made their teenagers change a tire -- AT ALL? How about on the side of a road, where you teach them to put out the warning triangle, get rocks to block the tires?

How about older people - there are defensive driving courses to show you how your diminished eyesight and hearing affect your driving, esp. at night. Some insurance companies give discounts for these.

Or . . . . just drift along and learn from your mistakes, if they don't kill you.

PS - these tips are from various car mags and USAA mags.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Driving and diving are not even in the same playing field,

This is true ... driving is much more statistically dangerous, particularly when you consider how much your safety depends on the actions of the other drivers surrounding you on the highway.

Flying a plane and Diving on the other hand would be.

How do you make the distinction between the two comparisons?

Self Reliance is key for sure, as well as CONED in some form or another.

Self-reliance and self-responsibility are incredibly important in scuba diving ... but I don't see con ed classes doing a whole lot to emphasize that point.

Most people dont associate driving with a possible loss of life, they just think of possible insurance claims and tickets.

Which is truly bass-ackwards when making a comparison to diving, since ... statistically ... the most dangerous part of your dive is getting to the dive site.

But to be honest, I think most people don't associate diving with a possible loss of life either ... they take the class for access. This is particularly true of AOW ... which is primarily taken by people who want to go deeper.

For me aptitude is key for defining good attitude.

Oh, I don't think accident analysis would bear that one out ... way too many experienced divers get complacent and do things they should know better not to do. Generally speaking, most divers consider themselves more skilled than they actually are. And generally speaking, the more experienced a diver, the more likely they are to engage in risky behavior ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Brendon]

This is true ... driving is much more statistically dangerous, particularly when you consider how much your safety depends on the actions of the other drivers surrounding you on the highway.

Not a fair comparison, more drivers engaging in that action then scuba divers in theirs.
Which is part of the reason why I said "not in the same playing field". As to your comment of drivers safety, I agree partially considering all the people I see looking at their phones instead of the road. I think it depends on your own driving more then that of others. Although both can put you 6ft under...

How do you make the distinction between the two comparisons?

Recreational Pilots and Scuba Divers are alot alike. IMO. I would never compare a daily driver to that of a scuba diver...

Self-reliance and self-responsibility are incredibly important in scuba diving ... but I don't see con ed classes doing a whole lot to emphasize that point.

Neither do I, but that should taught at the beginning. You are responsible for you. You are the best source of preservation U/W there is.

Which is truly bass-ackwards when making a comparison to diving, since ... statistically ... the most dangerous part of your dive is getting to the dive site.

Aint that truth...

But to be honest, I think most people don't associate diving with a possible loss of life either ... they take the class for access. This is particularly true of AOW ... which is primarily taken by people who want to go deeper.


Oh, I don't think accident analysis would bear that one out ... way too many experienced divers get complacent and do things they should know better not to do. Generally speaking, most divers consider themselves more skilled than they actually are. And generally speaking, the more experienced a diver, the more likely they are to engage in risky behavior ...

Well I couldn't disagree more on that.. We all work within our own limitations, If an experianced diver decides to do something risky you cant stereo type us all. I personally find novice divers doing the same thing. Which goes back to poor training and thats a topic all on its own... Maybe you mistake complacency for old age and forgetfulness.. JK.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

As always I enjoy your respones BOB. Feel free to poke back on that last comment LOL.

 

[Blackwood]

As I recall, risk vs experience is kinda like an inverted bell curve, with new and very experienced divers making up the brunt of the incidents.

 

[clay357]

This year I am going to get my AOW and Rescue Diver certs. as well as DAN O2 and first aid training. And then...Dive, Dive, and Dive some more.

 

[openmindOW]

How many people believe in CONED for driving? Has anyone ever taken more courses beyond the initial test or lessons and if not why?

I have taken continuing education for driving.

I took a defensive driving course. I also took a course on how to drive a stick-shift.

Do we think that people who engage in recreational rock-climibing should take continuing rock climbing classes? It makes sense to me.

What about photography?

 

[DaleC]

I have taken continuing education for driving.

I took a defensive driving course. I also took a course on how to drive a stick-shift.

Do we think that people who engage in recreational rock-climibing should take continuing rock climbing classes? It makes sense to me.

What about photography?

I learned how to drive by working on a farm for two summers (age 15 and 16). 12-14hr's a day in a 5ton split axle grain truck, a 4640 JD tractor and a swather.

I learned by mentoring or self education rock, ice, alpine and aid climbing as well as downhill and telemark skiing and snowboarding.

Photography I feel I need to take a course in


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As I said, I don't want to appear anti education (because I'm not) but I seperate learning "wants" from "needs" and feel that for most things recreational diving one does not "need" formal education. Occasionally, one does hit a progressional roadblock and that is the time I feel one "needs" a class of sorts.

On the one hand formal education is good because you can compress your learning curve and access knowledgable teachers (theoretically) but on the other hand, it bypasses some more subtle skills in the process.

First, unlike the mentoring process, formal education allows one to gain knowledge without developing long term personal relationships with other divers. In fact I would say that a large number of newer divers take coned courses simply because they have no other means of finding buddies to dive with (or from peer pressure from their new found dive professional friends). Formal education also bypasses the alternative "organized" method of mentored learning employed by many in the past, the "dive club". In the last couple of years at our club (for example) we've done workshops on equipment maintenance, field repair and servicing that would have cost $100's if taken from an LDS. We also arrange trips at no additional charge to members and don't pay for the organizer to dive for free.

Second, as stated, formal education allows one to compress the learning curve and advance far faster into complex diving conditions than self learning/mentoring would. Divers can become qualified DM's and instructors with very little real world experience and others can become certified to do seriously commited dive profiles sooner than they should. I also think there is a subtle pressure exerted on the diver (often by themselves) to make use of the certification they just paid so much money for, compelling them to engage in dives that they have the paper for, but not the practice.

Third, formal education allows the consumer to pick the time, method and means of their learning experience, a good point one would think. But, to my mind this ability to "control" the experience comes at the cost of atrophying one ability to cope with uncertain conditions. If one is always able to purchase the challenge and face it on their terms one may be lulled into a false sense of security and unpleasantly surprised when faced with an unpredicted experience at depth. As I alluded to earlier, how we react in a crisis situation is largely predicated by how we react in our daily lives. Someone who seeks out their own solutions as a habit will probably do that. Someone who seeks the help of a professional as a habit will probably do that.

As with developing a healthy immune system by early exposure to the common illnesses of childhood, perhaps the "uncertain" method of self education carries with it the "certain" germinal seeds of self reliance that manifest as resiliance later on in ones diving career.

 

[TSandM]

I've wanted to take some driving con-ed since I was a teenager . . . I used to drool over the ads for Bob Bondurant's School of High Performance Driving. I'd still love to do something like that, but I don't think my reflexes were what they used to be . . .

It's an interesting concept that con-ed, done too soon, gives the diver both the credentials and the confidence to expand his limits further than he is truly ready to do, from an experience and emotional stability standpoint.