Continuing Education
- Thread starter Brendon
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Well, I appreciate everyones response to this thread so far. Its seems kind of a toss up between formal education and self learning. I guess in the end all that matters is you don't become complacent and stagnant. To me continuing education is more then just learning, its a way of life. I have a insatiable hunger for knowledge in all things relevant to my daily life.
Driving and diving are not even in the same playing field, Flying a plane and Diving on the other hand would be. Self Reliance is key for sure, as well as CONED in some form or another. I doubt people would ever be convinced of CONED for driving unless it benefited them in some monetary fashion like cheaper insurance rates. There are classes available for that already. I have taken 2 motorcycle and defensive driving. Most people dont associate driving with a possible loss of life, they just think of possible insurance claims and tickets. Which is why I took my courses. Maybe that is what is needed in the Scuba industry as well, cheaper insurance for safe diving practice and CONED. Although providing proof of that would be hard to come by at least on the safe diving part... Scuba police issuing tickets for unsafe diving practice, now that would be something.No I'm not advocating that I just think the thought of it is funny.. For me aptitude is key for defining good attitude.
First: "For me aptitude is key for defining good attitude." I think you have that backwards. You can most certainly have a good attitude without aptitude and it will help you improve your skills. Conversely, you can be a good diver that is a complete dickhead, which will impede on skill improvement.
Second: There is no requirement for continuing education for private pilots unless you move to a different class of aircraft. The only requirement is a certain amount of time in the left seat. (If this has changed, someone please correct me since I can't find any information to the contrary.)
Third: Since most people (except Dive pros) don't buy "divers insurance" to protect them against liability for other divers I don't think the lower insurance rates would make any difference either way. I can see a program of continuing education as a good thing to maintain DM or Instructor status, though.
Finally, unless the sport is regulated by government, which most of us don't want, there will always be people like me and people like you. You like formal classes and think (from what I can tell based upon your posts) they are the best way to continue education. I, on the other hand, think formal classes are often over-rated and most of the information can be gleaned by reading and doing. I am trying to find a mentor and the only reason I'm considering any further training is so I can volunteer at the National Aquarium in Baltimore and the fact that I believe rescue diving should be part of OW. I may, at some point in the future, consider a Nitrox class but I can almost guarantee that will be the extent of any formal diving education I ever do. So, to sum up, OW, Rescue and Nitrox are the only classes I will ever consider without some arbitrary requirement levied against me by some other agency such that I'm willing to take a class to get the experience I want. For now that possibly means AOW though I'm still squarely on the fence about the whole thing.
I don't like throwing my money away and I find, probably because I'm arrogant, that the information just isn't so hard to grasp that I need personal instruction with most things. Occasionally I choose formal education versus a "self paced" or mentorship type environment but usually it's unnecessary for me. YMMV.
motorref
Contributor
When I first saw this, I thought "I should look at this, for no reason other than because I'm interested, new, and may have something worthwhile to contribute"; Having just spent more time than necessary trolling through this entire posting has forced me to rethink my original plan.
I will add this however: As a new diver, I look forward to my time on SB, and hope that I can continue to learn, and pick up tips and tricks from the more experienced members. I think that there is a ton of valuable information here, with many, many warm and concerned members that only want to further the education of people such as myself.
BUT, as a former instructor (firearms, self-defense and motorcycle safety among others) I will say this; continuing education is well and good, and has it's place (and I believe in it). But when you're in a situation that requires some form of physical action, there is no better way to learn than by doing it; practice, practice and more practice under all types of situations, clothing/gear, weather, etc., develops muscle memory, and that is what will save you.
If you want to flame/personally attack someone else's point of view, it belongs off-line - its wasting my time.
KevinL
I will add this however: As a new diver, I look forward to my time on SB, and hope that I can continue to learn, and pick up tips and tricks from the more experienced members. I think that there is a ton of valuable information here, with many, many warm and concerned members that only want to further the education of people such as myself.
BUT, as a former instructor (firearms, self-defense and motorcycle safety among others) I will say this; continuing education is well and good, and has it's place (and I believe in it). But when you're in a situation that requires some form of physical action, there is no better way to learn than by doing it; practice, practice and more practice under all types of situations, clothing/gear, weather, etc., develops muscle memory, and that is what will save you.
If you want to flame/personally attack someone else's point of view, it belongs off-line - its wasting my time.
KevinL
motorref
Contributor
Brendon,
My apologies - seemed I got too wrapped in in my own rant to post what you are looking for.
For continuing education/improving my skills, I just completed my AOW, and plan to work on Rescue Diver next. However, I have ulterior motives, as my 20 and 21 y/o daughters have both decided to take up scuba, and as a parent I feel I need to be ready for any emergency that may arise.
I'm taking both of them to Freeport, Bahamas, next month for their cert dives, and a few relaxing, no pressure/just have fun dives for myself.
KevinL
My apologies - seemed I got too wrapped in in my own rant to post what you are looking for.
For continuing education/improving my skills, I just completed my AOW, and plan to work on Rescue Diver next. However, I have ulterior motives, as my 20 and 21 y/o daughters have both decided to take up scuba, and as a parent I feel I need to be ready for any emergency that may arise.
I'm taking both of them to Freeport, Bahamas, next month for their cert dives, and a few relaxing, no pressure/just have fun dives for myself.
KevinL
fjpatrum
Half glass full/ or empty dont you think... One could argue in order to have a good attitude about a subject, they would first require a good amount of knowledge in the matter. Confidence, attitude, chip on shoulder all the same to me..
No one said there was, I only stated that I would prefer to compare divers to pilots not drivers. Because IMO they have alot in common.
Divers insurance... What do you think DAN insurance is for? Which is what I was talking about when I referenced divers buying insurance, I guess I could have stated that. But your right it wouldn't make a difference either way.
Your right that is the difference between you and I. I do agree however there are to many worthless classes wasting divers money and time. However IMO, not to mention the fact that the certification agencies agree - self learning does not replace or compare to guided practice. Now they have been around alot longer then you or I and are in place for good reason. Who are we to judge the founders of diving and their ideas of safe diving. They have gotten us this far, I'm sorry if that is not good enough for you. Maybe you should write a dive training manual, start up your own agency and train those the way you see fit.
Then you are one of many that can learn in this form, but that does not compare to the vast majority that cannot.
Half glass full/ or empty dont you think... One could argue in order to have a good attitude about a subject, they would first require a good amount of knowledge in the matter. Confidence, attitude, chip on shoulder all the same to me..
No one said there was, I only stated that I would prefer to compare divers to pilots not drivers. Because IMO they have alot in common.
Divers insurance... What do you think DAN insurance is for? Which is what I was talking about when I referenced divers buying insurance, I guess I could have stated that. But your right it wouldn't make a difference either way.
Your right that is the difference between you and I. I do agree however there are to many worthless classes wasting divers money and time. However IMO, not to mention the fact that the certification agencies agree - self learning does not replace or compare to guided practice. Now they have been around alot longer then you or I and are in place for good reason. Who are we to judge the founders of diving and their ideas of safe diving. They have gotten us this far, I'm sorry if that is not good enough for you. Maybe you should write a dive training manual, start up your own agency and train those the way you see fit.
Then you are one of many that can learn in this form, but that does not compare to the vast majority that cannot.
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree with each other on many of these points. I don't think you read or understood (one or the other) what I meant about having a good attitude. You can be completely ignorant of a subject but have a good attitude toward it--- see nearly any aspiring OW student. Everyone I've met going into an OW class completely clueless about diving was excited and looking forward to it. That excitement and good attitude won't decrease their aptitude. I agree having a certain aptitude can increase your excitement and thereby improve attitude about a subject. Conversely, as has been pointed out, having a bad attitude doesn't necessarily impact your current ability. I happen to believe a bad attitude will impact your ability to gain further skills, though. That attitude/chip on shoulder/whatever you call it is primarily why people are responding badly to your original query, in my opinion. (See the last sentence of your 4th comment I quoted.) I never said I could do it better nor did I ever dispute the value of "in class" learning. I will gladly disagree with you that the "founders of diving" would agree with the current system of training is the best. Most of them learned by doing through a mentorship situation or just having the balls to go out and try stuff, which is what I'm advocating and what I am trying.
If you read my post carefully, I mentioned insurance as protection against other divers because I believe many divers do carry insurance similar to DAN. That doesn't, however, equate even remotely to why people carry car insurance, which is usually to protect themselves against other drivers not against themselves. How many people do you know that actually carry comprehensive insurance on cars that are paid off?
YMMV means "Your Mileage May Vary". If the "vast majority" can't learn from a self paced or mentorship environment, which I don't believe, by the way, then they should take formal training. That said, it is not, in any way, a requirement for safety or improving your diving ability, which can be gained through simple diving experience. The biggest problem with the "vast majority" isn't that they lack attitude or aptitude, they simply lack experience. Diving once or twice a year just doesn't give you enough experience to improve and no amount of classes will fix that issue unless you get out and dive more. Perhaps continuing education isn't the solution, but expiration dates on certs unless you have record of X number of dives per year (average) or something like that.
There is really no point going back and forth here, so to keep the thread on the right track I will say this. "I appreciate your point view..."
I do not agree with most of what you have said. On that note you have said the most intelligent thing I have heard in along time... The concept you have described above is a great idea! Now how do we make that happen? Any Ideas? Anyone? That could have so many positive impacts to the diving community. Maybe take that one idea and repost on a new thread to see what happens. Get some people involved and get this thing going ASAP!
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The best thing anyone can do become a better diver is to be an active diver. Even though I have over 500 dives and have beenn a dive professions for more than 11 years, I learn something on every dive. I am all for contiuning education, but give me an exeorienced open water diver over a person with an advanced rating but little experience every time! Let's do Both- dive often, and take a course to improve your skills and comfort zone evry coupls of years.
DivemasterDennis
DivemasterDennis
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