Creation vs. Evolution

[H2Andy]

Dec 25th 2 BC is the date that the Magi would have seen Jupiter in the Southern sky and

Pug, I am so surprised at you.

Christmas originally did not fall on December (probably May or June). when Christians first began celebrating Christmas, they started celebrating it during the December Roman festival to the Sun (their winter festival celebrating a coming new year), in order to blend in and not get ... well... killed (neat idea, no?)

so... your Magi wouldn't have been in Palestine in December at all, my friend.

part of the reason that article you cited is claptrap is that he doesn't even know the exact date of Jesus' birth (nobody does) but goes with the traditional (and wrong) Christmas date.

(please do some research on these things? pretty please?)

 

[H2Andy]

..it is hard to gain any ground arguing with one who argues for a living....and seems to be pretty good at it.

thank you, but it really helps when the facts are on your side

i don't care how good you are, you can't win if the facts are against you (unless you have a gizillion dollars to overwhelm the other side)

 

[Uncle Pug]

Jesus was not born on December 25th.

He was a toddler (παιδίον, little boy ~ not βρέφος, new born) when the Magi visited Bethlehem on (or near) December 25th, 2 BC.

The reason for the December 25th date for the Bethlehem visit of the Magi has to do with Jupiter going in retrograde in the South at that time.

Simple as that.

 

[agilis]

Are there any hotel register records verifying that these Three Magicians were in Bethlehem on or about December 25th of any year? Any record of their use of credit cards that would place them there on that date?
Seriously, what records or scriptural references exist that indicate the Magics were in Jesus' neighborhood on December 25th? I'm sure even back then reservations were difficult to make during the holiday season, and December 25th was a big day around the year 0. All those Romans celebrating Sun Day, Mithra's Birthday, etc. The traffic must have been enough to try the patience of a saint.

Perhaps no claim was made that Jesus was born on 12/25, but the claim that the Three Magicians were there on that date is being advanced.

Based on what? Where is it written?

 

[RV]

Send your atheist friend an "I Told You So" card after the Rapture
http://postrapturepost.com/index.html

funny

 

[H2Andy]

Simple as that.

not so fast.

Matthew's account begins with the words:

"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem"

note that the Magi arrive "when Jesus was born" not "some time after Jesus was born," or "a year after Jesus was born," or "two years after Jesus was born" or whatever

"when Jesus was born."

says the Bible (Matthew 2:1). you can read into it all you want, but it's not what the Bible says.

second, the star (which stops over Jerusalem while they talk to Herod) gets going again once they find out the child is in Bethlhem (why do they need to ask, if they have a start to guide them? odd, no?) and then comes to rest over where the "child" lay (the word can be translated as "babe," "young child" or "little child.")

Recall that Mary and Joseph went to Bethlehem for the census. They would not have stayed long after the census before returning to Nazareth, where Jesus grew up
(he is after all known as Jesus of Nazareth, not Jesus of Bethlehem)

thus, the arrival of the Magi at Bethlehem could not have been too long after Jesus's birth, because Joseph, Mary, and the child wouldn't have stayed once they were counted for the census.

(i don't even want to get into the textual problems of the flight into Egypt ... very interesting stuff, but not exactly for the faithful)

 

[agilis]

The 'Rapture' is a totally unbiblical concept, and those who subscribe to this lunatic vision are indulging in heretical fantasy, adding things to Christianity that have no scriptural foundation.
Those who engraft such detailed invention to Christ's teachings pervert the Gospel, and will certainly be cast into the outer darkness, to burn forever in the Lake of Fire. Go to the end of your Bible and read what fate awaits those who add or detract from the text. It is arrogance that motivates rapture illusions, selfish pride in being one of the 'elect', and also a fear of death that ill becomes a follower of Christ.

 

[rookers]

Those who engraft such detailed invention to Christ's teachings pervert the Gospel, and will certainly be cast into the outer darkness, to burn forever in the Lake of Fire.

CanIGettaAMEN!

Seriously dude, a bit judgemental aren't we? Not that I believe any of this claptrap anyway. I am all about the FSM.

 

[agilis]

Sorry Rookers. I've been watching Pulp Fiction too often. Sometimes I forget myself, and go into a Samuel L. Jackson riff.

 

[Uncle Pug]

note that the Magi arrive "when Jesus was born" not "some time after Jesus was born," or "a year after Jesus was born," or "two years after Jesus was born" or whatever

"when Jesus was born."

says the Bible (Matthew 2:1). you can read into it all you want, but it's not what the Bible says.

Actually the Greek text τοῦ δὲ ᾿Ιησοῦ γεννηθέντος is simply stating the fact of Jesus birth.

The continuative δὲ links it to the anticipation of His birth in the preceding verse.

A literal translation of τοῦ δὲ ᾿Ιησοῦ γεννηθέντος is And Jesus was born

As to *where* and *when* the Greek text continues:
ἐν Βηθλεὲμ τῆς ᾿Ιουδαίας ἐν ἡμέραις ῾Ηρῴδου τοῦ βασιλέως,

That is: in Bethlehem ~ during King Herod's reign.

A fair translation into English would be:
"And Jesus was born in the town of Bethlehem in Judea during the time when Herod was king."