danger: solo openwater vs. cave diving w. buddy

[Nemrod]

"The numbers are what they are.... you can enlighten yourself with them, or ignore them... your choice. I never declared they were the "Be All.. End All" of analysis, but to declare them as "worthless"???"

And you can ignore the obvious and pretend it does not exist or apply to you---lol.

I think cave diving has some parellels with sky diving. Both are relatively safe as you claim, I don't dissagree, I just think that solo is safer. You jump out of a good airplane and plummet toward the ground. You have a curved knife to cut rigging, a back up chute and faith in the guy that packed it and the main and in your training to handle an emergency. Thing is---you have a time limit----in a few seconds give or take your going to strike earth--with or without a deployed chute! Same thing with cave diving, more than one has run out of time and taken that last breath with still hundreds of feet of rock between him and sweet sky. Truthfully, I do wish for you the best and most rewarding adventures, and a safe and enjoyable dives, be wary of dark and stormy nights. Good luck, be safe. I am going back to the Solo Forum, this must not be it.
N

 

[dherbman]

You've got the right forum. Maybe just the wrong thread. The question asked by the original poster was directly related to solo diving.

Solo diving is also filled with stories of death and near death. For that matter, so is daily life. If a person continues to solo dive without taking the proper precautions, I feel they are playing the odds. The same goes for walking across the street or any other activity someone has died at. Proper training, equipment and protocol can reduce or even eliminate that risk.

We could go head to head, you give me a cave death story and I'll dredge up a dead solo diver. In the end, all we'd have is a list of people who didn't follow the rules or take the precautions required.

Insults really don't make points, why use them?

 

[captain]

You've got the right forum. Maybe just the wrong thread. The question asked by the original poster was directly related to solo diving.

Solo diving is also filled with stories of death and near death. For that matter, so is daily life. If a person continues to solo dive without taking the proper precautions, I feel they are playing the odds. The same goes for walking across the street or any other activity someone has died at. Proper training, equipment and protocol can reduce or even eliminate that risk.

We could go head to head, you give me a cave death story and I'll dredge up a dead solo diver. In the end, all we'd have is a list of people who didn't follow the rules or take the precautions required.

Insults really don't make points, why use them?

Eliminate risk, never happen. Just betting out of bed in the morning is a risk.

 

[dherbman]

Eliminate risk, never happen. Just betting out of bed in the morning is a risk.

Yes, absolutely agree..... My mistake, you could always have a stroke, CA or other such thing take you. A cave in might occur while cave diving or you could get hit by a shark when solo.

It's a risks vs. rewards situation. I believe the risks can be reduced enough that the chances are minimal of death or injury in either situation.

 

[wb416]

You've got the right forum. Maybe just the wrong thread. The question asked by the original poster was directly related to solo diving.

The original poster asked which was more or less dangerous, comparatively, solo or cave. I think we've given information & opinions from various sides that give someone some information to ponder on their own. I've done both, so I feel that I can proffer an opinion that others can consider, or not.

I don't think anyone (or at least I) has tried to push or denigrate solo or cave, just give opinions as to why they think one or the other is more or less risky than the other.

So, I think the thread has stayed more or less connected to the original post.

Best Regards,
bob

I'm wondering if open water solo diving is statistically or inherently more or less dangerous/safe than cave diving, even with a buddy, and why.

I realize there are so many possible parameters and scenarios, so I'm just wondering what the opinions are. I also realize that asking this question here in the solo forum is inviting a bias, so please try to be civil and analytical in your answer.

 

[Skeeter1097]

I don't have the dive numbers that you all have. I am new at this for sure. My problum started becouse I drank are like fish drink water. So I ran out faster thin everyone I dove with. So I asended alone a lot. I got beter and I got beter equipent. I now dive longer thin most and have a grate time by my salf. Most all my dives a drift and the boat is on top of me. I have a 19cft poney and two first stages on main tank. with 3 secent stages one conected to my inflater.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I'm not a cave diver, so I am not experientially aware of the risks involved. I only know what I hear and read on the topic. But it does just seem odd to me that cave diving is viewed as legitimate while solo diving is not, on the whole.
I thought about this. Advertising changes peoples' attitudes and levels of tolerance and acceptance.( I wonder if the diving industry caters to cave divers because there is money to be made in all of the safety equipment and redundant gear, whereas solo divers pretty much have everything they need once they have their basic open water gear. If solo diving required more gear to be bought, I think it would be a safe bet that the diving industry would hold solo diving up in their advertising as a thrilling sport for which you need to purchase x, y, and z to engage in safely.) Then, when divers see the advertisments showing what fun solo diving is, they would come to accept solo diving as a legitimate form of SCUBA diving right up there with cave diving.

My parenthesis in the above paragraph. This is one of the reasons that there needs to be more education on the subject. Though I see where you are coming from and agree that most people think this, the fact is that BOW gear is not enough for "safe" solo diving. More people may be dissuaded from practicing it if it were emphasized in either BOW or AOW that solo diving requires certain extras along with ow training and experience. For example as DM candidate I carry more than the avg ow diver to assist with students (extra straps,light,no fog, safety sausage,divealert,pocketmask, etc. on me at all times in the water.). As a solo diver on the other hand that load is substantially increased. Along with the above I also carry a 19 cuft pony,140ft reel, 25kg lift bag/smb, 2 knives and snips, back up bottom timer and depth guage in addition to my computer, wrist and console mounted compass,3 lights, 2 slates, wheel, nav finder, and written(on slate) copy of my dive plan and proposed profile. Not to mention my float when I'm at the lake where it is required which I anchor to a platfrom and then have to recover. I also triple check my gear before I hit the water, leave a written copy of my dive plan with my vehicle if I'm alone or if someone is with me at the lake I tell them my plan, where I'll be, what I plan to be doing, and when I expect to surface. I then most importantly stick to that plan. If it were stressed that if you are thinking about diving solo this is what you need to do, well most of the people I've run across think it's too much work. It also would be good for the industry in terms of sales of additional equipment and instruction. The last of which really tho troubles me because somewhere there will be an instructor saying hey I can teach you how to solo who really has no business doing it and is just looking for extra money.

 

[captain]

I would not say that solo "requires" anything other than the assumption of risk. The question is what is the individual's risk tolerance. Some may chose to carry more than others based on their tolerance or perception of risk. Dive however you like just don't expect or require everyone to do the same. I am comfortable solo with basic OW gear.

 

[Charlie99]

I'm wondering if open water solo diving is statistically or inherently more or less dangerous/safe than cave diving, even with a buddy, and why.

Why do you (or others who choose to answer) care about the comparative risk?

For me it's a non-issue since I'm focussed on the decision of whether or not to go ahead with a specific dive, independent of what risks others may be facing in their diving.

 

[duckbill]

Why do you (or others who choose to answer) care about the comparative risk?

For me it's a non-issue since I'm focussed on the decision of whether or not to go ahead with a specific dive, independent of what risks others may be facing in their diving.

That's a good question. A little digging through the thread would have found you the answer. On page three I felt compelled to give an explanation for my original question:

"O.K. I didn't really want a debate, just individual opinions. Somehow, though, I knew this would happen.
The main reason I posed this question was because I was baffled as to why cave diving tends to be catered to in the diving industry and community, and the divers are often respected as risk-taking "explorers"; while solo diving is strongly discouraged on the whole, and the divers viewed as foolhardy. Why, to access this forum I had to register and acknowledge a disclaimer, while anyone can freely access the cave diving forum.
Go figure. Unless cave diving is inherently or statistically safer than solo diving- hence the query.
By the way, I joined this forum because I am often a solo diver by default, and enjoy it very much. Let's please keep debate to a minimum gents."

I often find myself being shunned by fellow divers when I mention that I often dive solo. When questioned they invariably remark about the foolishness of solo diving based on their preconceived notions about supposed huge risks involved. I considered the frequency of such encounters and found myself re-evaluating the safety of solo diving, when it occurred to me that most of these same divers look upon cave divers as SCUBA gods. So, I began to answer anti-solo responses with "At least I'm not a cave diver; The surface is right above me."
I asked the original question with the intent of trying to determine if it is fair of me to respond to the naysayers with such a statement contrasting the danger level of solo diving to that of the cave divers they seem to hold in such high esteem. I feel the prejudice, and I'm wondering why.
Try reading through the whole thread. It is very enlightening.