Death at Blue Springs State Park, Florida

[Tegg]

This is a thread about the incident at Blue Springs... Let's try to keep it on that track.

 

[Stoo]

Back in the 80's when I was doing serious cave diving my buddy and I did a drill weekend once a month at Blue Springs. Buddy Breathing, no mask Buddy Breathing, long hose following front to front restrictions, blow and go 's and on and on.

Sometimes, "Old School" is the "Best School". I stopped teaching about 10 years ago when it became apparent that the major agencies were all prepared to dumb down the basic level of OW certification so that anyone could pass the course. The PADI approach... keep enrolling the new guy in progressive courses... is a sound one. As long as the new guy buys into that. Many don't.

I am fortunate to have my own boat so I dive with people I trust in the water. When I'm on vacation or on the occasional charter, I am constantly amazed at the lack of skill and knowledge in some "divers". It's astonishing, and I wonder what Instructor would ever certify them.

Remind me to tell you about the four people on our boat who dove the Blue Hole in Belize last year that had one WATCH between them, no computers. no tables and no freekin' idea what they were doing. Thankfully, the DM sent my little threesome away to dive on our own. It was a good thing that our place had Internet, because that way one of the teenagers could Google "the bends" to figure he'd taken a hit in the shoulder... Ugh. I learned all of this the following day, and I like to think I'd have said something had I known prior to the dive commencing.

Back in the good old days, I used to routinely practice buddy breathing with my buddies as we worked our way through a dive, or take a mask off, or ditch our gear in 30 feet , free ascend and then recover it. It was just part of "going diving".

And then there was the time I buddy-breathed with my one-handed buddy, 100' down, under the ice, while we adjusted his sputtering Cyclon 5000 second stage.... But I digress.

Gawd, I sound like my Father...

 

[Bogtrotter]

You turn it and are not sure if its the right way so most people naturally then try it the other way. Now they find it hard in both directions. Immediately confusion and uncertainty sets in. Which way to move it? We all know in the back of our mind that most single valves close clockwise and open anti clockwise, and yet in this situation we are unsure.

On your average resort dive in Cuba a few years back I received a tank that opened in the clockwise position. I didn't think much of it at the time but when I was on the boat the DM/guide started going around turning peoples valves on. I had already turned mine on and doubled checked that it was indeed open, but was a bit unnerved by the possibility that the DM could unknowing turn it off thinking they were turning it on. I did alert them to this since, like myself at the time, many new or less experienced divers are unaware that there are tanks out there that are configured this way.

 

[scubamama]

Maybe he had a free flow and had to turn off the air. I've been in that spring and it's 120' to the bottom at about a 45 degree angle. There's a large cavern at the bottom that curls up like the toe of a boot. The water comes from behind a big rock and easily disorients a diver and can push them in the wash up to the ceiling where most divers bodies are recovered after they panic. I don't know the real reason why this fatality occurred whether it be the free flow with not enough air left to swim out, or if he just panicked and attempted to take his buddies air away (where was his buddie's octo????). Terrible tragedy whatever happened.

 

[Darkforeboding]

WOW!

Having been to Blue Springs about a dozen times in '78-'79 I'm amazed. Scubamama described it accurately. I never really considered it a cave since it was mostly just a 'hole' with no side rooms or tunnels that I could get into. Maybe I just didn't know about any. You can just about see the surface or at least light all the way to the bottom.

I'm hoping there are more details to follow. Cave or not it's definitely a deep dive and every precaution should be taken. I don't know what the park rangers check now, but when I used to dive there they made all divers sign in at the gate and checked their equipment.

Oh, and I was always told that a tank valve should be "not tight" against the open seat to prevent it from jamming tight against the backseat when the temperature changed.

DFB

 

[Peter69_56]

On your average resort dive in Cuba a few years back I received a tank that opened in the clockwise position. I didn't think much of it at the time but when I was on the boat the DM/guide started going around turning peoples valves on. I had already turned mine on and doubled checked that it was indeed open, but was a bit unnerved by the possibility that the DM could unknowing turn it off thinking they were turning it on. I did alert them to this since, like myself at the time, many new or less experienced divers are unaware that there are tanks out there that are configured this way.

Correct me if I am wrong however, but usually the cylinders with left handed valves have the valve knob on the left side. They are usually from a manifolded rig (one left hand valve and one right hand valve). I do take your point however that if you have one of these valves (and there aren't that many around used as a single tank configuration with this valve) the air could inadvertently turned off. I guess its really up to the user to ensure that this doesn't happen as probably 80% of divers will assume all the cylinders are the same configuration regardless of where the knob actually is. I have considered it but thought it better to replace the left hand valve with a standard on if I went twin independants or a singles with this cylinder set.

"Reduce the risks, think ahead"

 

[Agility]

all valves on my doubles are opened anticlockwise.
IIRC clock wise opening valves are used for CO2 tanks in Europe

 

[Peter69_56]

all valves on my doubles are opened anticlockwise.
IIRC clock wise opening valves are used for CO2 tanks in Europe

Yes you are right. Just checked mine and they ALL open anti clockwise. I guess the risk is that the valve is on the left side compared to right side. Given some people are not mechanically savvy, it could lead to confusion.

So where did this valve come from in Cuba on a dive tank? Just another trap I suppose waiting to kill someone.

 

[Bogtrotter]

So where did this valve come from in Cuba on a dive tank? Just another trap I suppose waiting to kill someone.

Done 40+ dives down there over the years but I'm pretty sure this was in Santa Lucia- Camaguey. It's not a problem if you do your checks right and nobody messes with your gear, but yeh with newbies on a busy boat who think counterclockwise always means open I could see this being a hazard.

 

[DandyDon]

Wow! Where was his alternate????

You're not going to believe this...!!

I see a lot of people open the valve all the way then back a half turn. Not sure why. If you get that reversed I can see a big problem. Close it when you think you are opening then half turn open.

I just open mine all the way. Also test it.

Yep, I like mine all the way. Once diving Flower Gardens, my home bud with whom I'd discussed this in full agreement and who turns standard wrenches and screw drivers every day repairing vacuum cleaners & sewing machines - really quite skillful in a dying art and my go to guy for anything delicate including changing my dive computer batteries - turned mine off on pre-dive check. I was just glad we agreed on all the way rather than 1/4 turn.

Hard to catch boat crewman messing with my valves while I am struggling to get read on a cramped panga. I had my valve all the way once and a Cozumel captain closed it, then opened it 1/4 turn. I started having issues as 20 ft, switched to my pony, and caught up with another diver who opened it for me.

What I don't understand from this final report is how the deceased diver managed to dive to 116 ft for 2 minutes, then ascend to 80 ft before he had problems. Differences in regs perhaps? Excerpts from 3 page story at Edgewater diver who drowned at Blue Spring still had air in tank | News-JournalOnline.com

"An Edgewater diver who drowned at Blue Spring State Park had plenty of air in his tank but its air valve was only partly open and he was not certified to dive as deep as he did, according to a report from the Volusia County Sheriff’s Office.

"Slack’s tank valve 'only turned less than one quarter (1/4) of a turn to shut off, this is not a normal operating position,' the sheriff’s report states. Another part of the report said it turned only a quarter turn. Sterner said he teaches students to open the valve all the way, which can take several turns, and then turn it back a half-turn.

"Slack had a novice open water diver card, meaning he was not certified to dive any deeper than 60 feet, the report states. Both Slack and Vansickle initialed a document at the park that they would not exceed the limit of the least certified of the two, meaning that they should not have exceeded the 60-foot depth.

"Vansickle was certified as a cavern diver and his gear included an extra regulator to be used by a buddy to breath during an emergency. But the additional regulator was under the chest straps of Vansickle’s 'buoyancy vest, making the regulator unavailable if needed,' the report states.

"Each man’s wrist-worn dive computer showed they dove to 116 feet to the bottom of the spring and remained there for about 2 minutes. They ascended to about 80 feet where both computers showed that they stopped for about a minute."

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But do read the linked story in its entirety.