Deaths at Eagles Nest - Homosassa FL

[lv2dive]

Gee, maybe because nobody knew it was a fifteen year old with no *SCUBA* training that was posting?

Sounds like a nice and normal kid.

So, how does a 15 year old kid with no cave training gets to dive these caves and post about it on the internet as well and no one says boo ?

 

[boulderjohn]

At 15, with the internet, if he was truly interested, he probably could have found out a lot more. Or, he could have trusted his father (as many teens whose fathers are taking them to do cool stuff will do) and NOT EVEN KNOWN that cave diving requires more training than what his father had.

This is a good point, and it ties in with the fiancée's comments that they always thought of safety first and never pushed things. She had no idea that they were pushing it every time they got in the water there. It also ties in with the people who keep posting on ScubaBoard that you don't need to get any training to go into a cave.

Many of you may not be aware of an incident a few years ago with a diver named Ben McDaniel. He disappeared, supposedly while cave diving (although his body was never found), and it was quite the big deal in these forums for a while. After his disappearance, we learned that, like those divers, he had been boasting about his cave diving experiences in online forums, especially FaceBook, for a long time. His friends and relatives were under the impression that he was one of the elite of the cave diving world, even knowing that he had never taken a class. One video with him diving showed up, and it revealed him to be a raw beginner. Even during the months long search for his body and people openly talking about his status as a beginner, his friends were still convinced he was a cave diving Superman. I visited a forum where the search was being discussed, and one of them posted that some of the people doing the searching were really good, "some may even be as good as Ben." They were talking about a team led by Edd Sorenson, who really is one of the world's elite cave divers. That is like saying Peyton Manning might be as good a quarterback as the star of your Sunday afternoon touch football games.

People in general have absolutely no idea what it takes to be even a decent cave diver, let alone a great one.

 

[gianaameri]

Gee, maybe because nobody knew it was a fifteen year old with no *SCUBA* training that was posting?

Good-point, maybe he posted anonymously, but physically he would have been seen at the caves he dived... he would have needed air fills and equipment...

Did he only dive with his Dad?

 

[FinnMom]

A comment earlier in this thread reminded me of another accident (and I searched for the information, and couldn't find it). A very well-liked young man dove with a couple of the people from the dive shop where he worked, somewhere in Monterey Bay, and did a very deep dive on air (over 200 feet, if my memory serves me). He did not survive it. There was a lot of speculation and some angry argument about whether narcosis or even oxygen toxicity played a role in his death. One wonders if there was some component of not monitoring the gas supply involved in this dive -- I'd rather believe that they got stupid and didn't turn when they should, than that they had absolutely no clue as to how much gas they needed to do the dive they proposed to do.

The above remnded me of a story I read about a death apparently caused by narcosis, and by the complacency that comes from having gotten away with acting foolishly. As the story notes "you get away with it until you don't".
Get it wrong and you're dead - Divernet

This relates to the subject of the thread
(1) in noting that at 233 ft this father/son duo went darn far in to the "risky" end of depth and that depth/narcosis can be plenty deadly without involving any overhead environment.
(2) Because the story I cite is also about how dangerous it can be to do what you know you shouldn't do. Exactly because you will probably get away with it, and this puts you on a slippery slope that can end in 50 ScubaBoard posts amazed at what a fool you were.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

There is an organization (IUCRR) that is supposed to oversee officially all body recoveries. There is a specific process that is supposed to be followed to make that happen. That organization also inspects the equipment, etc. after an accident. When this cave was closed to diving for a long time, one of the key promises made to get it reopened was that all body recoveries would be made by the organization using its complete safety protocols. That helped alleviate the fear that if there were to be a death in the cave, there would not be additional deaths to untrained people trying to find the body. Unfortunately, in this case it did not happen. The organization stepped forward today to say publicly that they did not direct the recovery, and they did not collect the equipment. Although some of the recovery team had training from that organization, the normal procedures were not followed in terms of notifying key people, establishing a trained team, following safety procedures, and following a proper in the chain of custody for the analysis of the equipment. They have made it clear that they did not direct the effort because it is being reported nationally that they did supervise the recover and that it was a member of that team that loaned /sold equipment to the uncertified divers. They are not happy about what it is doing both to their reputations and to their promise that something like this would not happen.

The IUCRR occasionally runs classes during workshops and conferences. A few years ago, Jim Wyatt talked me into doing the course with him at Peacock during the NSS-CDS conference. I didn't feel like going to school that day, but I'm glad that I did. The class was run by Lamar Hires and 3 other NSS-CDS instructors. Graduates received the NSS-CDS Recovery certification. IUCRR policies and SOP's were covered by the instructors, coordinators, and staff of the IUCRR. Several of us went on to join the IUCRR and become RRSOMS (Rescue/Recovery Site Operations Managers). Lamar was excellent. My buddy was awesome. We learned a lot and the knowledge and in-water training was worth it. I encourage other cave instructors and cave divers with needed skills, experience, or proficiency with advanced technologies to enroll in class if it is ever offered. Even cave divers far from Florida's cave country can help make themselves available in their regions as caves, mines, sumps, and shipwrecks pose hazards to divers not trained for such environments. The class I was in was made of cave divers from Mexico to Europe. Thanks to those who volunteer. To avoid recoveries being made by those outside the IUCRR, it would be great if more divers officially volunteered and received training. I've volunteered for the IUCRR in the Caribbean where Brian Kakuk is the regional coordinator and in the northeast where Conrad Pfeifer is the regional coordinator. Training is open to cave divers and not just cave instructors. A personal thank you to those who had the horrid task of recovering the father and son on Christmas Day.

 

[lv2dive]

I went diving last night for a two-hour dive and did not see a soul at the dive site. I have been to the two dive sites I know that this father-son team frequented, multiple times, and never saw anyone other than my buddy. I've also been and seen multiple people. Had I seen the father, alone, it would not have occurred to me question anything about him. Had I seen the father and son, I honestly don't know what I would I have done, before 12/25/13. There are no scuba police to call.

But the fact remains, taking that kid into EN was child endangerment. Given what happened two days ago, if I saw history repeating itself, I would call the police-police and report exactly that.

Good-point, maybe he posted anonymously, but physically he would have been seen at the caves he dived... he would have needed air fills and equipment...

Did he only dive with his Dad?

 

[Texas Torpedo]

Did he only dive with his Dad?

Let's regretfully hope that is the case.. Regretfully = wishing the son would have had another role model to enlighten him..

 

[Scott]

When this cave was closed to diving for a long time, one of the key promises made to get it reopened was that all body recoveries would be made by the organization using its complete safety protocols. That helped alleviate the fear that if there were to be a death in the cave, there would not be additional deaths to untrained people trying to find the body.

Just read elsewhere that the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission has no plans to change the access.

 

[gianaameri]

I went diving last night for a two-hour dive and did not see a soul at the dive site. I have been to the two dive sites I know that this father-son team frequented, multiple times, and never saw anyone other than my buddy. I've also been and seen multiple people. Had I seen the father, alone, it would not have occurred to me question anything about him. Had I seen the father and son, I honestly don't know what I would I have done, before 12/25/13. There are no scuba police to call.

But the fact remains, taking that kid into EN was child endangerment. Given what happened two days ago, if I saw history repeating itself, I would call the police-police and report exactly that.

They had no money for training (so it was reported in this thread) and made no secret of it and allegedly were using borrowed equipment.

Plus, cave diving is a small world.

Father and son cave diving together or diving together is not a big deal, but they were helped (and not stopped) to achieve their goal (it appears in this case from internet postings) without training.

 

[Wookie]

Father and son cave diving together or diving together is not a big deal, but they were helped (and not stopped) to achieve their goal (it appears in this case from internet postings) without training.

Blaming someone else for a stupid decision is no way to gain friends and influence people.

I will never stand in the way of someone's chosen method of suicide, I'll even lend you the means to do it if it's in my power, but to blame me? Unconscionable.