Deaths at Eagles Nest - Homosassa FL

[The Chairman]

A history of bad decisions just about sums this up. He's demonstrated his poor decision making skills time after time and has even gone to prison for it. He sentenced himself and his step son to death for the crime of combining delusions, ignorance and stupidity. It's been asked what can be learned, and his instance the answer is nothing. He's dead. He knew that he should get certified to dive in caves and he chose to ignore the rule. Was it finances? Was it a sincere belief that training was not needed? We'll probably never know. We only know that he broke the rules and paid the ultimate price and took someone else with him.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Based on all the info I have seen so far this was a cluster from the get go. Although I am a tad confused. Some reports list dad as the kid's step father. Not that it has any big implications but it could have some. Old jailbird dad trying to impress the kid as in "see I'm a low life but can still do cool stuff"? Kid trying to live up to the expectations and maybe emulate the loser? There is just so much wrong with this whole thing. I don't even know where to start. I do wish we had photos of them being brought out of the cave to contrast with the photo of them in their gear. You can bet I'd use them in my OW classes to show what stupid gets you.

 

[HIGHwing]

I'm traveling, so don't have access to any of my NACD course materials, but am wondering if NACD, NSS-CDS or other cave agencies have a "Statement of a Understanding" or similar that certified divers must sign. I recall from my PADI OW course that one of the things I agreed to when I signed the PADI statement was to "Deny use of my equipment to non-certified divers." I vaguely recall my NACD cert card or materials indicating that I agreed to something to the effect that I would not take non-cave certified divers into caves.

If a cave diver's certifying agency has such an agreement, what are the implications if they knowingly lent a non-cave-certified gear and tacitly condoned their cave diving? (Of course I think I know the answer...).

I took a picture of the release I signed before full cave. It was lengthy.

 

[00wabbit]

The kid was 15 years old, but on cave atlas he was trying to post like a big boy.

His last post on 12/13 "Good dive but there was some muck vis was clear-green did the ball room again, 134' max left line and ran a reel around a little bit, found a little room and went through a tube that leads right back out pretty cool"

We were all dumb 15 year old kids once. This is where the dad should have been there to keep him out of trouble. Leaving the line, running reels and exploring passages

 

[RJP]

Cavern is restricted to 100'. One body was found below that limit.

Again, why are we talking about what any particular certification "rules" are?

 

[Jon_R]

Wide range. Some 15 year olds are a mature 30. Some 15 year olds are big babies. Some 30 year olds are big babies. Etc... Just depends on the individual. My oldest At 16 was given a pistol and a lockbox and told her not to make me regret it. I know some 40 year olds I would not do the same.

If the kid was a certified diver, I would hold him equally responsible. Since he wasn't, and not having kids and not knowing how mature a 15 year-old is today, I don't know what to say about that.

 

[gianaameri]

The kid was 15 years old, but on cave atlas he was trying to post like a big boy.

His last post on 12/13 "Good dive but there was some muck vis was clear-green did the ball room again, 134' max left line and ran a reel around a little bit, found a little room and went through a tube that leads right back out pretty cool"

We were all dumb 15 year old kids once. This is where the dad should have been there to keep him out of trouble. Leaving the line, running reels and exploring passages

Sounds like a nice and normal kid.

So, how does a 15 year old kid with no cave training gets to dive these caves and post about it on the internet as well and no one says boo ?

 

[TONY CHANEY]

There is a movement afoot to update the "A deceptive way to die" video. I think the whole approach needs to be rethought with the idea of breaking through the delusions. It needs to have pictures of a body recovery, of the dead diver in the cave and even the grave marker. Pictures of the claw marks of their struggle to stay alive... something to bring home the needless horror of it all. I think there needs to be multiple videos made and constantly published and republished. It's up to us, ScubaBoard!

Very good point and a video "Got Training?" was made by my instructor about 11-13 years ago. I'll get with him and see if I can find the link.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

Again, why are we talking about what any particular certification "rules" are?

Just clarifying another misinterpretation. Seems it was already pointed out. The poster I was replying to seems hell bent on making some sort of point.

 

[boulderjohn]

I haven't read this whole thread, but since I'm familiar with many of you posting someone may have mentioned this already. I apologize if that is the case.

Thinking about a logical reason (if there was one) why a father would place his son at risk like this, only two things seem to make sense to me:

1. The father had poor open water instruction and believed he could do a better job teaching his son to dive.

2. The father was arrogant enough to believe that he was capable of making this dive and going in "just a little bit" was okay. Perhaps the thought that his kid could brag that he did Eagle's Nest before he even had an OW card seemed very cool at the time?

I have met divers who thought they were better than their instructor and I've met divers who were arrogant. A couple of these became names in the news.

As said earlier, I believe they openly said they could not afford training because they were spending so much money on gear.

If a cave diver's certifying agency has such an agreement, what are the implications if they knowingly lent a non-cave-certified gear and tacitly condoned their cave diving? (Of course I think I know the answer...).

I'm think a whole lot is going to come of that in the near future. It is creating a buzz elsewhere.

There is an organization (IUCRR) that is supposed to oversee officially all body recoveries. There is a specific process that is supposed to be followed to make that happen. That organization also inspects the equipment, etc. after an accident. When this cave was closed to diving for a long time, one of the key promises made to get it reopened was that all body recoveries would be made by the organization using its complete safety protocols. That helped alleviate the fear that if there were to be a death in the cave, there would not be additional deaths to untrained people trying to find the body. Unfortunately, in this case it did not happen. The organization stepped forward today to say publicly that they did not direct the recovery, and they did not collect the equipment. Although some of the recovery team had training from that organization, the normal procedures were not followed in terms of notifying key people, establishing a trained team, following safety procedures, and following a proper in the chain of custody for the analysis of the equipment. They have made it clear that they did not direct the effort because it is being reported nationally that they did supervise the recover and that it was a member of that team that loaned /sold equipment to the uncertified divers. They are not happy about what it is doing both to their reputations and to their promise that something like this would not happen.