Deaths at Eagles Nest - Homosassa FL

[Strima77]

I read it was an OW father, not an instructor, taking his uncertified son to check out new scuba gear he got for Christmas. Supposedly this is an advanced cave system with a narrow descent. Not sure why a non cave certified diver would go there much less bring an uncertified diver. very sad.

 

[Greg Hamilton]

Everyone wants to spread and diffuse blame for some reason.

All people die, every one of them. That's an inescapable truth.

Risk based activities are risky !

I climb, I shoot, I skydive, I scuba dive, I do a bunch more. In none of those activities do I have a police badge. If I feel inclined I can give my opinion when I see something unsafe, but it's an unsolicited opinion and will almost for sure be received as such. In the end, if it's not endangering my team it's not my business how people want to live or die.

That may sound harsh but it's reality. In almost ever case where you give advice on unsafe practices you wil be ignored, and nothing bad will happen as the incident rate of bad things is low. Your advice will be "proven" to be false and unwarranted.

I can advise people to get training. I can choose and vett who I go on big glaciers with etc. but it's not my job to police the mountain. I know a kid who is a self trained climber, he almost crippled himself this year, is recovered and is now self training in ice climbing. He is going to permanently cripple or kill himself. There is nothing I can do about that. Nothing. But anyone with any expereince and training knows his death is an inapescapable logical conclusion to his choices.

If I see someone making an obvious mistake I'll say something, especially if I know they know better and are unaware of the mistake they are making. Otherwise I don't pay any attention to other teams unless they are impacting my safety. It's not my job and it takes away from what is my job, ensuring me and my team are doing the right things.

Im sure that my opinion will be received negatively.

Life is risky, diving is risky, cave diving is riskier, deep diving is risky, deep diving on air is riskier. Deep diving on air in a cave without training in deep diving or cave diving with new and untested equipment is at the far, far edge of risk. People are going to die.

 

[DevonDiver]

In the end, if it's not endangering my team it's not my business how people want to live or die.

I think, in this specific case, the opinions that many are expressing represents the involvement of a minor, under the direction of their parent. A minor, deemed by law, incapable of weighing the risks. A supervising adult, deemed by law, responsible for safety and well-being of that minor.

The protection of children from neglectful or abusive parents has to be someone's business...

 

[pocky21]

Hey Greg, as someone who has at least a curiosity in mountaineering - if you see me on a trail doing something stupid, please call me a dumb mother$*@%# and curse me off the hill. Sure it might hurt my pride, but my pride can live to hike another day.

It's only the vast majority of people out there who refuse good advice. I was fed up with it for a while with ignorant divers, but after I shut my yap and focused on my own skills, I seemed to get quite a few more "show me" opportunities.

That said, I completely agree with you about smearing the blame around. It's both immature and unproductive. Yeah these guys broke damn near every rule in the book but there ARE people out there who do these things. God forbid I lend a canteen to a friend, he might try to hike up Mt. Everest with it.

 

[seaseadee]

I'd really like to hear from the folks who feel that you can or should go into caves without formal training. Debate is rarely interesting or useful if only one side speaks...


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[DevonDiver]

I'm not American. I don't know how the protection of minors is legistlated in your country. I just assume that it is...

 

[rigdiver]

Child Protective Services take a while to show up. And, if there is ONE reasonable adult around, guess what, Nothing happens. Seen it too many times. Not knocking CPS as they are spread way too thin.

 

[Amazz]

TraceMalin, if you did in fact know when to take responsibility as a 15 yo to call a dive that was too challenging for you, you were in the extreme minority of 15 year olds who held that type of discipline and maturity. I have worked with 15 year olds in schools for 20 years. While many are quite mature, the vast majority don't know understand the consequences of the dangers that lie before them when conducting risky behaviors. Kids are invincible, right? Even if he was certified o/w, the blame lies with the adults who supported this dangerous endeavor. I'm talking about father AND those who "schooled" them about cave diving. It is apparent that your training at your age was quite thorough due to the diligence of your role models. We all know how quick and dirty a PADI ow course is for the masses.

 

[Dhboner]

Bottom line...as a father you have a moral obligation to keep your children out of harms way. You can still participate in "high risk" activities and stay out of harms way with proper training/equipment/planning. That is not the case here...a father for whatever reason decided he could expose his son to extreme risk without training and was met with the worst of all possible consequences. Regardless of the legal interpretation, the moral conclusion is clear...he took his son's life through his own arrogance.

 

[Tickler]

Highwing,
I agree with your statement with the exception of I don't believe Eagles Nest is one of the sites OW instructors use. Back in the 80's Peacock and Orange Groove were used almost every weekend by local and out of state dive shops. I remember one tragedy where a group, five I believe, had graduated OW and were doing an advanced course. They had come down Friday for a Saturday class, gotten a hold of a local dive map and decided Royal Springs would be fun. They all died. As long as Training Agencies allow Open Water training in confined water this will continue. And I do understand the problem with land locked shops with only the local quarry available.

look at their gear- they were not planning an open water dive. This was a premeditated attempt at a cave dive. This has nothing to do with any open water class.