Deep Air Diving - thoughts

[Bismark]

I have no idea what the "DIR guys" at Madrona said - frankly I've never even heard of the place. But I have had the most extraordinary things said to me by DIR fanatics and I can well believe the post above. Rather as with some religous zealots, I don't think I've ever had a sensible conversation with someone who declared themself as "DIR". Note my wording - I'm referring to people who think the first thing I should understand about them (in a diving context) is that they adhere to DIR, not every DIR diver.

There is a lot of nonsense being spoken here about "deep air diving". Without getting into an argument over semantics it is quite clear that many divers can tolerate the nitrogen effects of diving down to the oxygen limit on air without obvious impairment. Those people who can't should not try to pass judgement on them. I can tolerate nitrogen in air quite happily down to 60 mtr here in the warm relatively clear waters of Belize. I don't think I'd do so well in cold British waters, but I do know people who routinely dive similarly deep there on air.

And dismissing the cost of helium as a "necessary evil" that you just have to pay is also absurd. If I know I can make a dive comfortably and safely on air, why should I shell out over US$250 to make the same dive on mix? If I did that it would severely curtail my diving, for no good reason.

"necessary evil that you just have to pay"? Those aren't my words. You have more choices than just dive air if you can't afford the HE. How about just don't do the dive for starters. You can decide your level of risk but I take issue with advocating that level of risk to others in the light of scientific evidence clearly demonstrating the impairment present when deep air diving. Why is it always the really drunk guy in the bar that makes the most noise about how he is not too drunk to drive?

"many divers can tolerate the nitrogen effects of diving down to the oxygen limit on air without obivous impairment"? I think you missed my point there also. It is reacting to an emergency that is the problem, even in your own words. Your kind of dive sounds great as long as nothing goes wrong. If things go wrong.......well then you have a problem that you will be solving when you are not operating on all cylinders. Your choice there as well but advocating that level of risk as acceptable to others with little of no knowledge of the subject and discounting the findings of science with respect to narcosis is what I believe to be the issue. With respect to this science and our experience, we both made our decisions. You argue from experience; I will argue from physics and biology.

 

[Bismark]

No just tired of judgemental people who try to dictate how people should live their lives.
BTW the OP is from Dallas so it hardly affects your pocketbook either.

I am not trying to dictate how anyone chooses to live their life. Both of us signed on the dotted line many years ago to put our lives at risk so our fellow countrymen (and women) could make up their own minds. Pretty much says it all about that I think.

I do really hate hearing those kind of stories about "DIR" Divers....... Hopefully that kind of crap will go the way of the dodo. We are all just trying to enjoy the ocean at the same time whether we are on RB, open circuit or snorkels. Zealots wreck it for everybody, whether it be religion or diving. Sigh.........

 

[wedivebc]

I am not trying to dictate how anyone chooses to live their life. Both of us signed on the dotted line many years ago to put our lives at risk so our fellow countrymen (and women) could make up their own minds. Pretty much says it all about that I think.

I do really hate hearing those kind of stories about "DIR" Divers....... Hopefully that kind of crap will go the way of the dodo. We are all just trying to enjoy the ocean at the same time whether we are on RB, open circuit or snorkels. Zealots wreck it for everybody, whether it be religion or diving. Sigh.........

It's well and good to say that but the attitude reflected in post #56 is remeniscent of just that "kind of crap" you are trying to distance yourself from.
FWIW the DIR guys I referred to earlier were from further south. Most VI guys I know are pretty stand-up

 

[Bismark]

It's well and good to say that but the attitude reflected in post #56 is remeniscent of just that "kind of crap" you are trying to distance yourself from.
FWIW the DIR guys I referred to earlier were from further south. Most VI guys I know are pretty stand-up

I disagree and lets leave it at that. I truly am baffled by poster's decision to "do some deep air dives first" just to get some experience. How is that any different from wanting to drive drunk before driving sober??

In any case, I am all done here.

 

[Hank49]

I disagree and lets leave it at that. I truly am baffled by poster's decision to "do some deep air dives first" just to get some experience. How is that any different from wanting to drive drunk before driving sober??

In any case, I am all done here.

There is one significant difference between narcosis and alcohol intoxication. In my experience, if I didn't like the way I felt, which sometimes was fear, I'd just ascend 5-10 meters and it's like "pooof", the effects are minimized and you feel "sober". Just like breathing laughing gas in the dental chair and switching to oxygen. With alcohol, only time will sober you up.

 

[sheck33]

I disagree and lets leave it at that. I truly am baffled by poster's decision to "do some deep air dives first" just to get some experience. How is that any different from wanting to drive drunk before driving sober??

In any case, I am all done here.

Agreed.

 

[John_B]

I do really hate hearing those kind of stories about "DIR" Divers....... Hopefully that kind of crap will go the way of the dodo.

How could it? Not when guys like Peter with an axe to grind continually dredge up their old war-stories. Just today he's done it twice.

 

[divebunny13]

The first time I ever did 185' on air, I was narced out of my melon. I do 185-190 on a regular basis along with 120-140' and I have found that my tolerance has gotten better.

Having to supervise other divers makes a big difference too. It's a buzz kill making sure all of your divers are accounted for when you are hovering on a wall over 6000 feet of water.

 

[sheck33]

The first time I ever did 185' on air, I was narced out of my melon. I do 185-190 on a regular basis along with 120-140' and I have found that my tolerance has gotten better.

Having to supervise other divers makes a big difference too. It's a buzz kill making sure all of your divers are accounted for when you are hovering on a wall over 6000 feet of water.

So you think supervising other divers somehow reduces the effects of narcosis?

Basically a drunk person making sure another drunk person doesnt get hurt.

 

[Kevrumbo]

I'm not saying I'm not going to eventually go trimix, just saying that I'd like to get some deep air dives in and some experience with that before making the jump. <snip>

Take the Trimix Course and get a feel for what tasks you can nominally do, and for certain contingencies that you can efficiently react to. Then afterward, should you choose to dive Deep Air, you can gauge on how severe the narcosis is affecting your faculties and skill: for example, if you bog down on a task that you would have otherwise have no problem completing on trimix or at a shallower depth, then abort the dive. In my case on the Nippo Maru at 42m/140', after untangling my SPG from the penetration line and then being presented with a silted-out passage behind me, I reeled it all in and got the hell out of there. . .

Here's a better example of how easily you can blunder into a life threatening situation with your senses dulled by narcosis: Lost Alone in a Wreck 45m/150'