difference between deep diver and aow

[DCBC]

I would guess that nearly every every agency has this model of instruction-- ...If you don't like the concept, attack the concept. There is no reason to pick out one of the many agencies that does the same thing.

John, I suspect that the agencies that include selling diving equipment into their instructor's programs as a mandatory requirement are in the minority. Neither CMAS, ACUC, NAUI, or IDEA have made "selling equipment" a necessary part of becoming a scuba instructor. In the past they have left salesmanship to the businesses that do this as a profit center.

I agree that you don't have to name the agencies that make selling a part of becoming an instructor, but I for one don't like the concept. I fail to see how this has a place in teaching someone how to dive safely. I can however understand why some agencies include it, as some make dive shop affiliation a requirement for instructor certification and if this is the agency approach, it makes complete sense.

Wayne

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

John, I suspect that the agencies that include selling diving equipment into their instructor's programs as a mandatory requirement are in the minority. Neither CMAS, ACUC, NAUI, or IDEA have made "selling equipment" a necessary part of becoming a scuba instructor. In the past they have left salesmanship to the businesses that do this as a profit center.

I can't answer for the others, but "supporting your dive shop" was definitely a part of my NAUI instructor training ... and selling "con-ed" classes was definitely a part of the evaluation process ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DCBC]

I can't answer for the others, but "supporting your dive shop" was definitely a part of my NAUI instructor training ... and selling "con-ed" classes was definitely a part of the evaluation process ...

Sorry Bob, but what part of your NAUI instructor class had to do with you personally selling diving equipment?

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5181356-post1.html

Sorry for the hijack.

 

[oly5050user]

Have you ever seen a standard agencies Advanced Nitrox course?! Its entirely about developing in water skills and spends several day doing so.

Basic Nitrox is entirely theory but Advanced Nitrox most certainly isnt.

Yes, adv nitrox course has in water skills.But I stand by my statement where the only way to gain experience and good inwater skills is to actually go diving.
A peak performance course-or an adv nitrox course-ANY course can definitely shorten the learning curve,but the only way to get comfortable and competent in diving is to GO DIVING and do it often ,not just the 10 or 20 dives a person may do on their once a year vacation.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Sorry Bob, but what part of your NAUI instructor class had to do with you personally selling diving equipment?

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5181356-post1.html

Sorry for the hijack.

What part of my previous statement didn't you understand? Or are you calling me a liar?

Let's not go there, Wayne ... if you want more details, try a PM.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DCBC]

... if you want more details, try a PM.

PM sent.

 

[dwhthediver]

Wow...Tim, Bob, from now on, I will make sure that all of my posts meet your exacting standards. I will make sure that they are completely devoid of humor, because lord knows I wouldn't want anyone to get the idea that anyone on Scubaboard has a sense of humor. Please don't try to tell me that a joking post in response to a question posed in (what seemed to me) a tongue-in-cheek manner in the Advanced forum is enough to turn divers away. I did not post this in the new divers or basic diving section, where it MIGHT sway a new divers feelings towards their agency.
While we are on the topic, though, let's stop dancing around this. It is well known that PADI focuses primarily on money. We have all heard enough stories about instructor candidates getting gigged for not merchandising well enough. Or seen that PADI's Master Diver cert is merely a pretty trophy with no additional training. While the quality of training you receive from any agency is primarily up to the instructor, the sales pitches are determined by the Agency. My NAUI instructor was a wealth of knowledge as far as gear goes, but he never approached a sales pitch. I have sat in on 2 PADI OW classes (all of the class time, and most of the water exercises, mainly out of curiosity), and the push to sell gear is disgusting. The move completely away from tables and wholly into computers is just another symptom of their push for sales.
If you don't agree, that's fine, you don't have to. This is my opinion. If you want to try to villainize or insult me for stating my opinion, that's fine too. This is the great thing about free speech. I'd be happy to discuss differences of opinion. But it's hard to hear you from up there. You'll have to get off your high horses first.

ummmm...NAUI is a FOR PROFIT organization also, so maybe your instructor didn't push sales, don't mean they all don't. OR MAYBE NAUI instructors are blissfully unaware of the fact that dive shops are supposed to be profit centers, OR you just had one who doesn't push sales as hard because of his reputation for knowing gear, and sells a lot of because of that and doesn't need a pitch in a class.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

ummmm...NAUI is a FOR PROFIT organization also,

Ummm ... no they're not.

From NAUI's web site ...

NAUI Worldwide is the world's most respected, largest non-profit diver training organization in the world.

NAUI Worldwide Dive Safety Through Education

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

While the quality of training you receive from any agency is primarily up to the instructor, the sales pitches are determined by the Agency.

I just want to make it clear that this is not true. Neither PADI nor NAUI sell dive gear, so neither make any money if the instructor pushes gear. They do both tell instructors that they should consider themselves to be in a cooperative relationship with the dive shop with which they are associated (assuming they are associated with a shop--it does not have to happen), so promoting sales is good for everyone. If my shop were to go out of business, I assure you I would have a very hard time working as an instructor. I would lose all the instructional facilities, the student gear, the compressor, ....

The degree to which the instructor pushes sales is entirely up to the instructor and the shop for which he or she works. The agency has no say in it.

The only agencies that have a link of any kind to gear sales are GUE and UTD. GUE's link with Halcyon is not really official and kind of fuzzy, but UTD's gear clearly has the name UTD on it, and it can be purchased through the UTD instructional web site.

 

[dwhthediver]

Ummm ... no they're not.

From NAUI's web site ...


NAUI Worldwide Dive Safety Through Education

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Mea Culpa Bob, I was misinformed and in the interest of fairness, I apologize for the mistake, now that being said, how many NAUI affiliated dive shops are not for profit?
Doesn't a dive shop regardless of agency have to turn a profit eventually to stay open? To turn a profit, don't they have to sell classes and gear, that doesn't make them bad people, it makes them small business owners. Yes, with most agencies you can be independent and avoid the "evil" of selling gear to people interested in your opinion of dive gear, but even as an independent instructor, you still want your students to sign up for more classes so you can make them better divers, oh, the by product of that is more money in the instructor's pocket! I don't believe any of the certifying agencies don't care about selling more classes, and I am sure their instructors want to sell more classes, does that make mentioning the "con-ed" opportunities available wrong? Replacing learning with selling would be really wrong, but a little blurb about getting more dive education, or how what you are learning builds to another module? You and I are on the same page most of the time, and turning out better divers should always be the goal should it not?