dir rig question

[roakey]

Thats scary ! Instructors who don't know how a bp/w works ?

Here in Colorado we are totally land locked by a long shot, but have a lot of people with disposable income. Colorado also attracts a lot of people who like to play, and the combination causes a number of things to happen in reference to SCUBA:

We have the highest per capita SCUBA divers in the US, despite being land locked.

We are almost strictly recreational divers, mostly flying to Cozumel to dive once a year.

So, almost all the students are strictly recreational, so the shops are strictly recreational, so the instructors are strictly recreational (and have to wear the shop's recreational gear in order to teach) so no shops except one in the entire state know JS about anything even slightly technical.

We have instructors that do way more teaching than diving for fun, so when they tell you they have 1000 dives, what they really mean is that they've done one dive a thousand times, kneeling on the bottom, teaching students to keel on the bottom, who go on to be instructors all the time kneeling on the bottom.

Most shops are high volume schools, teaching a lot of instructors.

The instructors teaching the instructor wannabees have only done that one dive a thousand times as well, and don't know how to dive very well.

The new instructors learn what they're taught, which doesn't include how to dive well (teach well yes, dive well no).

For this reason and given the volume of students, I'd hazard a guess that Colorado has the highest number of bad divers than any state.

There's only a few of us that engage in what we fondly refer to as "Colorado Mud Diving."

And the whine: Because of the high demand, you rarely find anything one cent less than full retail. Colorado: Home of the $250 AL80.

Roak

 

[Wijbrandus]

Hey Roak,

Talking about mud dives, have you decided on a date for that trip down south?

I just found out I've got more vacation days left than I thought. Woo hoo.

 

[Hoppy]

Here in Colorado we are totally land locked by a long shot, but have a lot of people with disposable income.

snipped
Roak

Thanks for clearing that up

 

[SeaJay]

Gee, the majority of the instructors I've worked with own BP/W rigs ... even if they don't use them for classes. I'm currently DM'ing for two different shops, and of their combined staff only one instructor doesn't own a BP/W setup ... and even she knows how one works and how to make it fit properly.

Just lucky, I guess ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

You guys should come down here and teach the local instructors a thing or two.

Heck, I can go to North Florida - in the middle of cave country - and walk into a shop with my bp/wing, and they get this "deer in the headlights" look. If I ask for a part (like a bolt snap or 2" webbing) then the typical response is to call the manager (who calls the instructor), and they pretty much stare at my stuff for a few minutes, asking me why I didn't just "do it the right way" and buy a SeaQuest Raider or Scubapro Classic.

It's pretty amazing.

It's gotten to the point where I leave my lift bag in my Halcyon stealth pack so that I can pull it out ("right before their eyes"). I don't mean to be rude, but this "magic trick" gives their brains something to grasp as to why the bp/wing may have an advantage over an over-the-counter BC. If I don't have the bag to pull out, then they have a habit of simply telling me all of the things they don't like about this "newfangled" BC. First they tell me that the webbing isn't as durable as a cummerbund, then they tell me I don't have enough D-rings to "even do any rec diving," then they tell me "they make weight integrated now..." Etc, etc, etc.

The funny thing is that this is standard... And I always get caught up in it, although I have no interest in "justifying" my gear to anyone. I couldn't care less what they think, and I certainly don't ask for their assessment. Yet... They definitely feel the need to let me know what their assessment is.

...It's gotten to the point where I simply don't ever bring my gear in. I leave my regs - my wing - my suits - my tanks - everything - in the car or at home so that I don't wind up sitting for an hour or more listening to their opinion.

...But on the rare occassion that I do need to bring something in, I definitely remember my lift bag. That seems to be the only thing their minds can grasp.

To me, it's kinda like explaining to someone why you prefer BMWs to Chevys... If they've never driven a BMW, they just don't get it... But if you put a rocket launcher (or equally cheesy effect) on your BMW, then they "get it."

...At least, they think so.

...Anyway, you're welcome to come down here and teach these idiots a few things. Yeah, my statements are a generalization and it doesn't apply to all local instructors, but it's been my predominant experience.

 

[salty]

asking me why I didn't just "do it the right way" and buy a SeaQuest Raider or Scubapro Classic.

Nice one SeaJay that had me rolling

 

[SeaJay]

Me too. When I hear that, it's my turn to give them the "deer in the headlights" look.

The situation's gotten so predicable that I almost have a script for it. Maybe I should add some thespian drama to it just for fun. Likely, they wouldn't even notice.

Don't even talk to me about taking a long hose in... Which is really funny, since the long hose configuration is on page 8 of the PADI AOW Diver's Manual.

I once got laughed out of a PADI dive shop for demonstrating the reason why to do a long hose (the AOW instructor didn't know - which is scary, given that he's supposed to be teaching it). Needless to say, I didn't return. Both me and my wallet (which has spewed something like $15k in the past twelve months at various diving gear and associated activities) walked out that day.

Maybe next time someone's in Dive Locker/Ski Chalet of Savannah someone can point out the long hose configuration in the AOW manual to Ben's dad. I'm through with those guys.

...Oh, don't get me started.

 

[VTernovski]

actually, what I have noticed when new OW students want to inquire about technical diving and are being shut down right away for a sake that they are too new to diving... but what really happens is that they take these advices (which are legit, of course) and turn away from fundamental "so often-called technical" things like BP/Wing and go back to jacket style BCs with PADI-style instructors. How many times I hear from people " Oh, backplates are for technical divers"... There is no harm from learning recreational diving from technical instructors... and that's the beauty of DIR system. You don't need to start with jacket style BC just because you are a new diver and not doing technical stuff. There is nothing wrong with starting right away with a good advice on a BP/Wing and starting with a good technical instructor to teach OW or AOW. (Like AG at FifthD). It is much worse, however, to have those poor OW students work with instructors that never used a BP/Wing and, never seen a7' hose, and even worse, don't have any desire to even try or open their mind to. There is a fine line here... perhaps when OW student like that ask about technical diving, maybe what they really need is a good suggestion on a BP/Wing setup, long hose, and a good Technical Diving instructor that can also teach OW. Because everyone is so drilled with this misconception that backplates are for technical diving, that there is a good chance this is what OW student means by sayin gthey want to get into "technical diving"... do you see what I am saying?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

While I can see where you're coming from, I'd caution against generalities. Most of the shops I associate with at least make an effort to acquaint their OW students with the BP/W during the equipment part of the class. For that matter, so did my YMCA instructor. I ... and many DM's in our area ... wear our BP/long hose config during checkout dives. The instructors we work with think it's a good idea to expose students to this alternative configuration ASAP. I recognize that it may be different in your neck of the woods, but I don't think the "problem" is as bad as some make it out to be.

Also, I'm fairly certain AG doesn't teach OW or AOW. Does he even teach Fundies anymore?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[VTernovski]

I agree, I appologize for the generalization.. not all PADI instructor are bad... but a lot of them are... I know! YMCA, btw, is the best recreational agency out of them all, in my opinion. I assist classes for YMCA instructor, and I see the difference between this and my original PADI training.... but I realize everyhting depends on an instructor. If I become a PADI instructor, you can bet I'll start with with BW/Wings rightaway. and a long hose too, btw. Team diving, too.. man. people should really read a few first pages of their PADI book! lol...but anyway, did anybody undertand what I was tryin gto say in my earlier post?

 

[SeaJay]

He taught my Fundies last year.

Sounds like you've got a sweet system going on over there, NW... I sure wish you'd come down here and teach. It kills me when a friend decides they're interested in scuba and they ask, "Where do I go for the best OW cert?"

I wish I could tell them to get on a plane and go see you.

No shop I've seen from the SC/NC border to High Springs, Florida teaches bp/wings... In fact, I've yet to meet an instructor in that area who's even seen the configuration before.

...And I've hit seven dive shops in Columbia, four in/around Charleston, four in Savannah, five in Jacksonville... The list goes on...

There's one DIR-friendly dive shop in Atlanta, and they probably have a pretty good idea of what's going on, but that's all I know of for several hundred miles in any direction from Savannah.