dir rig question

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Have you guys ever seen North East divers from around my woods? most of them wear these huge 100lb wings rangers, IQ paqs and sequests,.. a lot of divers are outfitted with chisels and hammers on their belts... of course most of them are "hard core" kinda divers doing Doria on air and stuff like this. Most people frown on the word DIR, and automatically assume I am some sort of *******. There are a few hogarthian dive shops around here, they are pretty good with their gear, basically they are DIR, but they hate DIR guys for what ever reason. Of course, it's unheard for a an OW to pickup a BW/Wings, and a lot of instructors make fun and speak in a derogatory manner to those students when they see them with an interest in Backplates and that sort of things. We desperately need more and more open minded people here in the North East. Thanks got Bob Sherwood is here upstate and MHK and Bob both doing DIR-F in April. But, so far, I haven't seen any decent dive shops around NYC area with a decent instructors. mostly (again, I apologize for generalization), it's a four letter word agency bull**** teaches half fast students that send them to Caribbean to do the OW checkout dives.
 
dnj30:
i am new diver, just ow. would like to eventually tech dive. would i have to use bp/wing set-up. i have zeagle ranger, which can be fitted with bp, twin tanks, large bladder, etc. would this set-up be acceptable under dir guidelines? if not, why?

anyway... I feel like we are detracting from the original subject and an original question. Since this has been posted in a DIR forum, I am suggesting to ditch your Ranger and get a Backplate with Wing rig right away. It is a misconception that such rig is for technical diving. yes, it can be used by new Open Water students and technical divers.. it's the same unified system.

Last but not least, I noticed you are in NY area., we will have the DIR-Fundamentals class on April 16,17,18, I high recommend you consider taking this class. It will be conducted at Dutch Springs, PA.

You're at the right stage to take that class before you start building bad habits and start stocking up on unnecessary or incorrect dive gear.

May I recommend you obtain a book - Doing It Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving by Jarrod Jablonski ISBN: 0-9713267-0-3
 
SeaJay:
It's gotten to the point where I leave my lift bag in my Halcyon stealth pack so that I can pull it out ("right before their eyes"). I don't mean to be rude, but this "magic trick" gives their brains something to grasp as to why the bp/wing may have an advantage over an over-the-counter BC.

ROLF!!!

Dude, you just almost costed me a keyboard... I was drinking green tea when I read your post!

I have to try that with my shop here on 6th ave and 20-something street (won't mention the name)... I went there once and asked if they had a scuba-pro SS weight belt buckle... dude! they tried to sell me this huge spring loaded self adjusting buckle that was twice the normal size... and they guy wasn't even sure what I was talking about. finally I broke down and almost screamed "Ok, even if you don't sell them here, how could you not know or seen what a Stainless Steel Scubapro-like weight buckle looks like??!!" :lightingz
 
Maaaaan...

Yeah, in their "more features" mentality, the hidden lift bag wins many hearts. Too bad that's waaaaay far away from the "big picture."

It's good to know that I'm not the only one that this stuff happens to, though.

I have to admit, that's probably the hardest thing about being DIR... The fact that everyone feels the need to "convert" me to non-DIR. My only defense is to tell people, "Yes, I learned how to dive on the same system you use. I know it intimately. After a bunch of diving, I've come to prefer this method."

...But as polite as that is, what typically happens is they ask, "Why?" If I tell them... Like, if I say to them, "Well, here's why I prefer a long hose" (and then proceed to donate to them in a mock OOA and show them how a long hose is necessary to exit a restriction in a single file), they get angry. In some cases, really angry.

There's usually a little light that goes on above their heads... They say, "Ohhhhhhhh... I see why you need all that hose and make yourself deal with it." (As if the long hose isn't easier than the short hose anyway.) "Well... *I* definitely don't need anything like that because I'm never in an overhead situation." Of course, this specifically counters the picture they have on the wall of them in the Ginnie ballroom. Or on deco. Or, in your case, on the 'Doria.

...But I'll swallow it and say, "Well, you might want something like this one day... But in the meantime, it works even in nonoverhead situations..."

At that point, it's like they just shut down... So I just shut up. I can see their eyes glaze over, and I think there's a psychological "block" that happens... Suddenly, they realize that there's a method to the different gear configuration, and they realize that perhaps they weren't taught all they really need to know to do the diving that they're doing.

...So I've come to the conclusion that I'm threatening. My gear - my attitude - my skill set - it's all threatening to them. And so they get angry.

...Which places me at the short end of many long jokes and prods. Lately, they've started calling me "genie," because I hover in the water column. I hear all the time, "You need to get on the bottom. That's how diving's done around here. You'll learn." (This typically comes from a diver with 20 or 30 dives in the local waters.)

Another good one is the day I let a buddy know that the dive style was called, "DIR." From that day on, he told me that it stood for "Diver In need of Rescue." I find the joke mildly amusing (hey, I can laugh at myself), but the bottom line is that I've "rescued" him twice... He's never rescued me once. Not even close.

He actually once justified the acronymn by telling me about some story he read somewhere (he was unable to produce the source) where a "recreational diver" had to "rescue a DUI diver." "Yep," he said... "I read all about it... Those guys at DUI are unsafe."

Talk about clueless.

And that's the hardest part of diving DIR. The attitude that those guys at NE Scuba have I find is very common... And the bottom line is that I constantly see the non-DIR guy attacking the DIR guy. If there were an ***hole to be defined, it wouldn't be the DIR guy.

...Which I think is so odd.

But hey, they killed Galilieo because he told everyone that the universe did not rotate around the Earth, contrary to popular opinion... I guess I'm getting off light being unusual. :D
 
SeaJay:
No shop I've seen from the SC/NC border to High Springs, Florida teaches bp/wings... In fact, I've yet to meet an instructor in that area who's even seen the configuration before.

...And I've hit seven dive shops in Columbia, four in/around Charleston, four in Savannah, five in Jacksonville... The list goes on...

Sorry Bro, I gotta call a huge BS on that one.

Obviously the guys at Ginnie know what a BP is, all of Lloyd's employees are cave certified, so they know, my shop owner's husband is actively exploring the Bellamy cave system and I teach exclusively in a backplate.

As far as Jax goes, the guy who owns Scuba Tiger is a mix/cave diver and the two guys who work for him are cave divers, and the manager at Meridian is a cave diver and one of the instructors just dove Diepolder, all of these people are intimately familiar with backplates.

While I personally prefer a BP/wing and a long hose, for the average rec diver I find nothing wrong with a traditional BC and reg setup, but I do make it a point to expose my students to each and let them decide on their own.

Ben
 
Ah, well... I stand corrected then. :D Maybe there are some people who know bp/wings. None of the shops I hit in Jax even knew what a bp/wing was, though. And forget Savannah, Hilton Head and Charleston.

Come up here and see for yourself. Better yet, open a phone book, call them and ask.
 
SeaJay:
Lately, they've started calling me "genie," because I hover in the water column. I hear all the time, "You need to get on the bottom. That's how diving's done around here. You'll learn." (This typically comes from a diver with 20 or 30 dives in the local waters.)

That's a good one :))) :eyebrow:

SeaJay:
But hey, they killed Galelieo because he told everyone that the universe did not rotate around the Earth, contrary to popular opinion... I guess I'm getting off light being unusual. :D

Well, actually Galelieo wasn't killed. He admited he was wrong in exchange for his life (he was old and ill and wasn't able to stand tortures). He was sentenced to life in prison which is lately replaced for life in isolation. But several other scientist that worked on Galileo's and Kopernik's ideas were tortured and burned alive: Antonio Vanini, Jaques Fountianier and Giordano Bruno.

Oh, this is far away from our subject ... I hope :wink:
 
Heh.

Well, looks like I'm battin' 1000 for being wrong today. :D Ah well...

Funny... I've believed the Galilieo-death thing for so long that I don't remember where I picked that up... High school maybe? Grade school? Weird. Weren't we all taught that growing up?

...Anyway, I hope my wrongness doesn't dilute my message. It's still a fact that I see much more aggressive opposition from the non-DIR crowd than from those on the other side of the philosophy. Not that it's a big deal, of course - I'm just really tired of taking heat on every dive boat and in every dive shop that sees that I'm DIR.

Heck, I don't bother much with "public" dives anymore for this very reason. We don't generally do dive trips any more, and we don't bother with charters any longer. RavenC and I are fixing up her boat and taking "just you and me" dive trips a lot more than we ever have before. We buy online or exclusively at DIR dive shops. We do all of our own maintenance and repair, and we've stopped doing any education that doesn't come directly from GUE.

There was a thread not long ago here about becoming a "scuba snob." She and I are doing a lot more than that... We're becoming "scuba recluse."

What's added to the pile is the fact that I've done a lot more offshore research than ever before, and frankly, I've found some really great shipwrecks and artifacts and I'm a bit nervous about who I share them with.

...Add to that the recent "ban" that she and I went through here on SB, and frankly, we hardly even pop our heads in here anymore, either.

We're just really tired of getting beat up.
 
SeaJay:
Heh.

With the exception of my GUE instructors, I've never known an instructor to know how a bp/wing works, much less actually dive one.

How's that for scary? :D

In all fairness, there does seem to be a number of exceptions to that statement here on this board... But I've never met a bp/wing savvy instructor off-board.

I know of one personally. She showed up in town with nothing but her bp and pioneer.

She wasn't allowed to dive it while diving with the local shop because they didn't sell them which I suppose is fair enough.

If you run a business you have a right to make that decision.

I know she would much rather have chosen to wear it though.

I'll tell you what I have no time for though. Those instructors that reason that they are complex, difficult to remove/replace, and all the other fear and ignorance based reasons for staying clear.

It really only shows their lack of knowledge and ignorance more than anything.

Luckily I am a person with free will and independant thought and that make it easy for me to simply avoid these narrow minded peeps.

Sometimes the waves job is to hammer sense into the land. Sometimes it chooses just to flow around obstructions. Water has limitless options. So do people.
 
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