Disadvantages of DIR ?

[Dan Gibson]

True, but on rare occasions, an intelligent idea actually came out of his posts. Rare, but it did happen.

No, novadiver is annoying but not nearly as condecending as our ad hominem spewing friend.

 

[Dan Gibson]

I was thinking Nancy, but I'm sure that would get deleted

How about, "Lord Master Nova?"

 

[novadiver]

I was thinking Nancy, but I'm sure that would get deleted

So , I see you've made your choice! Have you taken the time to read post 483.

 

[Potapko]

did this thread actually have a topic? Got so bored by page 11 I had to break off

 

[cornfed]

did this thread actually have a topic?

Of course it had a topic, however we've gone through seven or eight others by now.

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

It's always a good idea to stay on topic. But has anyone noticed the rising fuel prices?

 

[Soggy]

It's always a good idea to stay on topic. But has anyone noticed the rising fuel prices?

They seem to be dropping in my area. Want to argue about that now?

How about a post on DIR Driving....applying Gas management protocols to driving. Whenever I go in a tunnel, I always make sure I don't use more than 1/3 of my gasoline supply, so in an emergency....blah blah blah

 

[MikeFerrara]

They seem to be dropping in my area. Want to argue about that now?

How about a post on DIR Driving....applying Gas management protocols to driving. Whenever I go in a tunnel, I always make sure I don't use more than 1/3 of my gasoline supply, so in an emergency....blah blah blah

Since you can breath without gas all that's required is to reserve an adequate rock bottom. In this application rock bottom is the amount of gas needed to get to a gas station taking into account all required traffic stops.

The rule of thirds is overkill here.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob...

dude...

You make a great point in your last several posts. I hope some others will consider it and perhaps adjust their attitude accordingly.

Everyone benefits by a little open-mindness.

Without meaning to detract from your overall message I will share with you an experience that I had when an octopus was "scary" and, at least in my mind at the time... "unsafe". Lobster hunting, deep, screwed up, soon to be out of air, buddy aware of my shortage, holding his octo in his hand ready to donate...my thoughts at the time...that looks "scary", is that thing gonna work, why oh why won't he set his gear up like mine, I sure wish that he was giving me the reg that's in his mouth...I know its working!

In our shop we teach with the standard rig...I hate it... but that's the deal. Students get a "you owe me a beer" for having a mask on their forehead. Silly. Do they get that call when their octo is dragging on the bottom of the pool or in the sand? Not likely.

Though calling someone with a well maintained, properly configured and correctly placed standard gear "unsafe" really shows a lack of maturity on the part of the name-caller, I must say that in reality this setup can be... and often is..."scary" and "unsafe". Try as I might to teach students the importance of being aware of their gear, I still see them later in life cruising with stuff dangling everywhere. The setup just lends itself to problems.

Stephen

Just to put a little context around where I'm coming from ...

I'm a recently-certified NAUI instructor. Within days of receiving my certification, I made a decision to teach independent of any LDS ... because I realized that no matter how good the LDS is, their business objectives may interfere with the way I want to teach. FWIW - I teach in a hog rig, BP/wing system. I don't require my students to wear one ... but I do want them to be able understand the differences and to make educated choices about their own gear.

I currently own three BP/wing systems ... and by the end of this week will own five. I also own five complete regulator setups ... three of them long-hose configurations. This is a significant investment, and I did it because I want to be able to give my students the opportunity to try them, and decide for themselves if this is something they want to consider.

What I will NOT do is tell my students that something else is inherently dangerous. I like to believe that people, given adequate information and training, are smart enough to figure out for themselves what are their best choices.

To my concern, a well-maintained recreational regulator is not inherently unsafe ... as long as it's used in the conditions for which it was designed to be used (i.e. recreational diving). What can be unsafe is a lack of knowledge about the gear, a lack of practice at basic safety drills, and an unaware mind with respect to what's going on around you (especially with your buddy). Hog rigs are more efficient ... that's why I use one. But a well-educated diver can be just as safe and efficient in a standard rig, as long as they dive within their limits, know how to properly configure and use their gear, and practice safety drills regularly.

But ... to address your last point ... regardless of what configuration they choose, no student of mine will dive with danglies ... that is a basic safety issue, and I won't compromise on those.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[-hh]

First, my thanks to Bob & Cornfed for elevating this to a real discussion ... hopefully, I'll have more than a minute and can contribute a comment to that.

Hey bro, he's the one that posted that having a clipped off octo was not a big problem.

Maybe that's because it might not be a big problem?

First, let's realize that the diving risks of these "horrible" OW Rec divers is actually quite small: UK's HSE estimates that the Average annual risk of death as a consequence of an activity for scuba diving is 1 in 200,000 dives. Expressed as a percentage, that's a 0.0005% risk for all sources combined (not just equipment-related).

Second, let's recognize that we often choose to change something to something better, not because its a significant enough risk to make it a priority for change, but simply because its a quick and easy change to make. The biggest risk in diving today is not how an octopus is configured.

What's wrong with what I said, I though I made a good point: even though everyone hears how DIR is not just about the gear, that you do need to have the correct rig or you ain't DIR?

I don't have a problem with the Is It DIR Yes/No, but rather that you characterized one small element of gear configuration as highly dangerous. The only thing missing was the:

"AND YOU WILL DIE!!!!!!!!!!"

....that frequently ends such claims.

We've all seen this, and it is old and lame. Afterall, many people have been diving for longer than you (or I) have been alive with such flawed configurations and have survived with very low (and socially acceptable) death rates.

Its probably partly because they don't have as horrible of skill set as some people want to believe that they have.

Its probably partly because they typically aren't doing higher risk overhead penetration dives, but are merely enjoying themselves as a recreation. That's a low risk exposure.

And probably many other factors too. I'm not going to bother to list them all. The bottom line is that this is a diving reality and cannot be ignored no matter how hard we try to deny it.


The bottom line is that you have to know the risks before you can intelligently prioritize them...something that's "easy" to fix doesn't automatically mean that its somehow significant in the big picture.

If a dive jumps from low risk to high for you just because of how your backup is configured, you have bigger problems than just your equipment configuration.


-hh