Discover scuba without instructor

[Tribal]

If you want to try a sport you can most of the time try it with friends or family, for some reason most people see diving different.

I did make my first laps on the track with a 600cc bike without having a drivers license. It was all fine and nothing unusual about it.

So if a friend wants to dive once, how bad is it if you take him on a dive without being a instructor? For some accidents you need a dive insurance, but what can happen that a normal insurance doesn’t cover? Is there any law about diving? In France there is but that’s an exception?

It’s only a hypothetical question, I wonder if divers ever take a friend with them to let them see what it’s all about?

 

[tursiops]

Yes, it happens.
It is perfectly OK until it isn't.
Hoping there will be no problems is not a good strategy.
Insurance coverage is a waste of money, unless you need it.

 

[oly5050user]

You need to realize that your friend can become your worst enemy if an accident happens and will sue you for everything they can get. If You are not an instructor with liability insurance and your good pal embolizes and winds up crippled, or dead you stand to lose any and all assets you own. Own a car, not any more, own a home, gone, bank accounts, gone. Then there may be possible criminal charges as well for negligence, possible jail time, court and lawyer costs. If your good pal does not go after you in court who is to say their family or survivors will not ? Is it worth it? Only you can choose.

 

[Tribal]

Yes, it happens.
It is perfectly OK until it isn't.
Hoping there will be no problems is not a good strategy.
Insurance coverage is a waste of money, unless you need it.

Of course it isn’t a good strategy. But I can imagine that there are people with 1000 of dives that can handle the problems just as fine as a instructor would?

 

[oly5050user]

Of course it isn’t a good strategy. But I can imagine that there are people with 1000 of dives that can handle the problems just as fine as a instructor would?

Maybe they could, maybe not, but they do not have professional liability insurance. There are instructors with over 5000 dives , they know how to handle problems, and if an accident occurs beyond their control , which can happen at any time, they are thankful for their liability insurance.

 

[2airishuman]

Law? Not in most places. Insurance? After a beginning SCUBA diver suffers an accident, there usually aren't any medical expenses.

The Discover SCUBA programs promulgated by PADI and other agencies provide a number of key safety features:

1. They define a specific list of eligibility criteria, including swimming skills and medical clearance
2. There is a curriculum of classroom material that participants are expected to understand before entering the water, covering important things like the risk of pulmonary barotrauma and AGE, usually expressed as "don't hold your breath."
3. They define a set of skills instructors must have, among them observation skills, rescue skills, and ways to identify common mistakes.
4. They specify a confined-water training session with specific skills the student must demonstrate before progressing to open water.
5. Instructors obtain real-world experience working with and observing students, in a role as DMs or assistants, before taking responsibility for their own students.

Now, there are accidents -- fatalities -- that occur because instructors sometimes skip some of these steps. Probably the most common example is instructors who rush the confined water portion of the class, or conduct it in adverse conditions where they cannot physically control the student. Discover SCUBA itself does not enjoy as good a safety record as actual dive training (for Open Water Diver or other agencies' equivalents), even with the curriculum, the instructor certification, and the institutional controls.

Can you do as good of a job as that system?

 

[Tribal]

You need to realize that your friend can become your worst enemy if an accident happens and will sue you for everything they can get. If You are not an instructor with liability insurance and your good pal embolizes and winds up crippled, or dead you stand to lose any and all assets you own. Own a car, not any more, own a home, gone, bank accounts, gone. Then there may be possible criminal charges as well for negligence, possible jail time, court and lawyer costs. If your good pal does not go after you in court who is to say their family or survivors will not ? Is it worth it? Only you can choose.

That is the thing i’m Wondering, why would they be able to sue you? If tomorrow you take a friend with you to ride a bicycle, he crashes and gets hurt. They can’t sue you unless you did something wrong?

 

[0321tony]

That is the thing i’m Wondering, why would they be able to sue you? If tomorrow you take a friend with you to ride a bicycle, he crashes and gets hurt. They can’t sue you unless you did something wrong?

These days I wouldn't put money on that scenario, all your non bicycle riding buddy would need is a good lawyer. Even if you win you're still out lots of money in legal fees to prove your buddy was an idiot. You can sue for anything at any time and win with a good lawyer, kinda like ordering a hot coffee then spilling your coffee in your own lap then getting rich because the coffee was hot.


Because you as a certified diver know the dangers and decided to take it among yourself to try and teach or supervise someone that you didn't have the skill to teach. Doesn't matter you have 100,000 dives if you are not a card carrying instructor you would lose.
Sadly nothing you do anymore is your own fault, you can blame any stupid decision you make on someone else.

 

[Graeme Fraser]

I think the vast majority of us would strongly advise against it, for many of the reasons already stated.

Yes, diving with an instructor isn't a guarantee of safety, but it reduces the risk to an acceptable level. You have to ask yourself if you truly posess the training, skills, support and equipment to get you and your friend out of trouble if something goes wrong. I don't want to speak for anyone else, but when something does go wrong it can go bad very very quickly. Instructors aren't infallible, but they have been trained and drilled to prevent, manage and de-escalate situations. Many also have a built in scepticism based on real world situations.

Trust me, normally calm, reasonable people can turn into superhuman lunatics who will try to drown you if they start to panic.

Maybe take a look at some of the dive related accident and death reports before you decide.

Just my two pennies worth. Why not suggest a DSD? If he likes it you may have a future buddy.

 

[Marie13]

OP - if you want your friend to do a DSD, then offer to pay for it. However, if friend doesn’t have the money to do a DSD, doubt be’ll have the money available for an OW course, equipment, trips, etc.