Divemaster Responsibilities

[TMHeimer]

No, it's not the normal course for a teacher, nor part of his training, but it happens all the time, especially if you teach Band as did I for years.. It's not apples & grapes. Divemasters are NOT trained to always keep all divers together (Nor is this always the case on the school trip). As a DIT, I've read exstensively about DM vantage points-"in water" (with the whole group, or staying with one buddy team with an inexperienced diver,etc.-the others being on their own) or "out-of-water" (most common form of supervision) -on the boat ready to assist if someone surfaces in an emergency, looking for bubbles (I guess all you'd know seeing them is that somebdy is still breathing), and being aware of where the O2 and other emergency equipment is on board. With the exception of in-water supervision of an entire group whose dive plan is to stay together (popular in many tropical locations, I know), I would say that the other scenarios are exactly like the teacher at that hotel.

 

[Thalassamania]

No, it's not the normal course for a teacher, nor part of his training, but it happens all the time, especially if you teach Band as did I for years.. It's not apples & grapes. Divemasters are NOT trained to always keep all divers together (Nor is this always the case on the school trip). As a DIT, I've read exstensively about DM vantage points-"in water" (with the whole group, or staying with one buddy team with an inexperienced diver,etc.-the others being on their own) or "out-of-water" (most common form of supervision) -on the boat ready to assist if someone surfaces in an emergency, looking for bubbles (I guess all you'd know seeing them is that somebdy is still breathing), and being aware of where the O2 and other emergency equipment is on board. With the exception of in-water supervision of an entire group whose dive plan is to stay together (popular in many tropical locations, I know), I would say that the other scenarios are exactly like the teacher at that hotel.

I can't speak for the training you've received but every DM that I've ever trained received extensive training in how to manage a group in the water, usually in the context of in-water supervision of an entire group whose dive plan is to stay together, but the case that brought this thread about was just such a case. One of the problems with this diuscussion is the DMs have rather different roles in different places, West Coast, vs. Tropical Islands, vs. North East Wrecks, etc.

 

[pilot fish]

In all fairness, you need to read most of the posts in this thread, a daunting task, to understand fully what this lame brained DM/DG did, and did not do, on this fatal dive. It was CLEARY, failure to perform.

No, it's not the normal course for a teacher, nor part of his training, but it happens all the time, especially if you teach Band as did I for years.. It's not apples & grapes. Divemasters are NOT trained to always keep all divers together (Nor is this always the case on the school trip). As a DIT, I've read exstensively about DM vantage points-"in water" (with the whole group, or staying with one buddy team with an inexperienced diver,etc.-the others being on their own) or "out-of-water" (most common form of supervision) -on the boat ready to assist if someone surfaces in an emergency, looking for bubbles (I guess all you'd know seeing them is that somebdy is still breathing), and being aware of where the O2 and other emergency equipment is on board. With the exception of in-water supervision of an entire group whose dive plan is to stay together (popular in many tropical locations, I know), I would say that the other scenarios are exactly like the teacher at that hotel.

 

[mikemath]

The DM is trained to keep all divers together, advise agaist going to 100 ft, or 200 ft, and be trained in rescue, if the need should arise.

No, kinda, and yes.

No: I'm working towards my PADI DM certification, and there is no expectation or standard that a DM should always keep divers together for every dive. The DM is responsible for a dive briefing that includes general dive planning, however the individual execution of that dive plan is the responsibility of divers. To the extent that multiple groups form (either as part of the plan or on a diver's individual initiative counter to the plan) the DiveMaster needs to use judgment about how to act. Accompany the larger group? Accompany the least experienced divers? Accompany the group taking the largest risk? Return to a surface vantage point and monitor all groups from a distance? Abort the dive? There is no standard covered in the DM course and this is a situation where a DiveMaster must use his best judgment based on the situation.

Kinda: Saying that DiveMasters are trained to advise against 100 or 200 foot dives is an over-simplification. DiveMasters should consider diver experience level when determining the general dive plan, and should do so conservatively. That will vary immensely depending on the divers, the conditions, and the location. A DM is trained to help divers dive conservatively within their limits and encourage them to use safe dive practices. Sometimes this will mean suggesting divers should not dive to a certain depth or not to dive at all. The decision to take that advice or not is the responsibility of each diver.

Yes: You are correct that DiveMasters are trained in rescue techniques.

 

[mikemath]

In all fairness, you need to read most of the posts in this thread, a daunting task, to understand fully what this lame brained DM/DG did, and did not do, on this fatal dive. It was CLEARY, failure to perform.

The initial posts and discussion were clearly about a particular incident, but this thread (Divemaster Responsibilities) was split off by the forum moderators from that discussion specifically to isolate the discussion about general DiveMaster responsibilities. If you want to comment on the initial incident, you can do so here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/283416-diver-death-cayman.html. Reading back through the last 20 posts, it's clear that most people are talking about general procedures and not this incident on this thread, which I believe was the intention.

 

[Thalassamania]

Mike - what you're reflecting is the DM SOP of California dive boats ... and that's fine, but it differs from DM SOP almost every were else.

I think that a properly trained DM should be able to handle him or herself effectively in all the different areas with their differing practices.

 

[TMHeimer]

Sorry about getting into the Band Teacher-Divemaster thing. I agree with Thalassamania about DM roles varying greatly. In all my boat dives in Nova Scotia and N. Florida each time it was buddy groups by themselves, with the DM usually, but not always, on the boat while we dived. In fact, the PADI DM Manual states: "Out of water supervision....This is the most widely used form of supervision with certified divers". Thus my comparisons to the teacher.

 

[mikemath]

Mike - what you're reflecting is the DM SOP of California dive boats ... and that's fine, but it differs from DM SOP almost every were else.

I think that a properly trained DM should be able to handle him or herself effectively in all the different areas with their differing practices.

Good point, Thal, and I'm definitely coming into this with a NorCal bias since that's where I've been trained and have done most of my diving. Regional standards are definitely important, although less clear-cut from a training perspective because they are rarely formally documented. As a DM in training, I'm planning on adopting the same principle divers are encouraged to use: don't dive beyond your training. If I move to a new area with different procedures, I'll need experience and training dealing with local standards before I'll expect to DM there. If the standard is complete supervision and assumption of all risk for divers at a location, I think I'll be electing not to DM there.

 

[Thalassamania]

The way it tends to work in the tropics is the DM does a brief on the way out for the whole boat and then narrows his or her focus to the group that he or she will be diving with. The DM will not be expected to provide specific supervision for everyone in the water, just for his or her group. It can get complicated, brief the boat, brief your group, hook up or help anchor the boat, help divers get ready, get divers that are not in your group in the water, dive with your group, get them back on the boat, get the other divers back on the boat, debrief, untie or up anchor, help stow gear, and keep a smile on your face the whole time.

 

[pilot fish]

mike, I should have been more clear. I meant in relation to brand new divers that they will lead on a dive. A diver that has JUST completed thier training a few days earlier and this dive is thier FIRST dive post cert. he needs to be more alert to that diver, don't you think? THAT is in your training

No, kinda, and yes.

No: I'm working towards my PADI DM certification, and there is no expectation or standard that a DM should always keep divers together for every dive. The DM is responsible for a dive briefing that includes general dive planning, however the individual execution of that dive plan is the responsibility of divers. To the extent that multiple groups form (either as part of the plan or on a diver's individual initiative counter to the plan) the DiveMaster needs to use judgment about how to act. Accompany the larger group? Accompany the least experienced divers? Accompany the group taking the largest risk? Return to a surface vantage point and monitor all groups from a distance? Abort the dive? There is no standard covered in the DM course and this is a situation where a DiveMaster must use his best judgment based on the situation.

Kinda: Saying that DiveMasters are trained to advise against 100 or 200 foot dives is an over-simplification. DiveMasters should consider diver experience level when determining the general dive plan, and should do so conservatively. That will vary immensely depending on the divers, the conditions, and the location. A DM is trained to help divers dive conservatively within their limits and encourage them to use safe dive practices. Sometimes this will mean suggesting divers should not dive to a certain depth or not to dive at all. The decision to take that advice or not is the responsibility of each diver.

Yes: You are correct that DiveMasters are trained in rescue techniques.